Day laborers, who identified themselves as illegal immigrants looking for work, gather around a potential employer that stopped to hire workers at a street corner where illegal immigrants gather in Dallas.
One of the most common criticisms of illegal immigration is that immigrants pay little or no taxes, yet still receive government services paid for by tax-paying U.S. citizens. This criticism was repeated again recently by Missouri Treasurer Sarah Steelman as she opened her campaign for governor of that state:
The Republican presented a report to a Senate committee, expounding on the burden that illegal workers place on the state and federal government. Such workers and their employers avoided paying between $242 million and $449 million a year in income and payroll taxes for Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance, she said.
“So the problem is quite evident,” Steelman said. “It also creates an unfair advantage for employers who are not paying those taxes over companies that do pay the required taxes.”
Steelman, it turned out, misread a study on the topic and overestimated the amount of unpaid taxes. But she asserted that her general claim -- that the hiring of illegal immigrants robs government of taxes. Is it true?
It may depend on whether you take a long-term or short-term view of the topic. In the short term, experts seem to agree, illegal immigrants tend to receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes. The disparity has given rise to a Web site created by the conservative Heritage Foundation: No Free Mustang.
Why is it called that? Robert Rector explains:
"The average illegal immigrant family receives an average of $30,000 in governmental benefits! Yet they pay only about $9,000 in taxes per year. That creates a $21,000 shortfall that the American taxpayer has to make up. That's like buying each of the illegal immigrant families a brand new Mustang convertible -- each and every year!"
The Center for Immigration Studies, a vocal opponent of illegal immigration, looked at "The High Cost of Cheap Labor"
in 2004 and found that illegal immigrant families tended to receive fewer welfare and Medicaid benefits than other households -- but even then, didn't pay enough in taxes to cover the cost.
Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.
In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don't pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work "on the books." On average, illegal households pay more than $4,200 a year in all forms of federal taxes. Unfortunately, they impose costs of $6,950 per household.
The disparity might be higher, but the Reason Foundation's Shikha Dalmia noted in 2006
that the federal government had long since cracked down on benefits to illegal immigrants.
The 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.
According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended.
The exception for K-12 education, though, is a pretty big one -- and it's borne, generally, by state and local governments. Wisconsin is an example, as shown in this report
on a study in March by that state's Policy Research Institute:
The data show Brown County loses an average of about $9 million a year on immigrants. In other words, immigrants consume more in state and local services than they pay into the system through state and local taxes. The biggest cost burden is education for children, which is the most expensive public service.
On the other hand, the presence of illegal immigrants in the United States has apparently bolstered the finances of Social Security. Many undocumented workers pay into the system, but never retire or receive a dime from the program, as the New York Times reported in 2005:
As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.
While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus.
That continues to be true, according to an April 2 editorial in the Times:
In the fine print of the 2008 annual report on Social Security, released last week, the program’s trustees noted that growing numbers of “other than legal” workers are expected to bolster the program over the coming decades.
We’re not talking chump change. According to the report, the taxes paid by other-than-legal immigrants will close 15 percent of the system’s projected long-term deficit. That’s equivalent to raising the payroll tax by 0.3 percentage points, starting today.
And in a 2007 report, the White House Council of Economic Advisers asserted that, over the long haul, immigrants end up paying off:
The long-run impact of immigration on public budgets is likely to be positive. Projections of future taxes and government spending are subject to uncertainty, but a careful study published by the National Research Council estimated that immigrants and their descendants would contribute about $80,000 more in taxes (in 1996 dollars) than they would receive in public services.
The overall effect, the council said, is a bit of a wash -- and a minor one at that:
The long-term fiscal approach imparts four main lessons: 1) although subject to uncertainty, it appears that immigration has a slightly positive long-run fiscal impact; 2) skilled immigrants have a more positive impact than others; 3) the positive fiscal impact tends to accrue at the federal level, but net costs tend to be concentrated at the state and local level; and 4) the overall fiscal effect of immigration is not large relative to the volume of total tax revenues – immigration is unlikely to cure or cause significant fiscal imbalances.
As Congress in 2007 debated a bill that would create a "pathway to citizenship" for immigrants already in the United States, the Congressional Budget Office weighed in with a mixed fiscal review of the proposal:
The immigration bill before Congress would cost the federal government roughly $18 billion over the next decade, largely because of the huge costs of additional border control and law enforcement measures, according to an analysis released yesterday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The analysis found that over the next decade, newly legalized immigrants and guest workers would generate $48 billion in additional tax and Social Security revenues, while using about $23 billion worth of tax credits and social services. Thus, the newly legal immigrant population would contribute a net of about $26 billion over the decade, the report said.
Over the long haul, the bill would be a virtual fiscal wash, costing after 20 years a few billion dollars a year more in enforcement and government assistance than the Treasury would get back in tax revenues from the foreign-born workers, the study said.
So: Immigrants consume far more in government benefits than they pay in taxes. Truth or not?
Thoughts
100 % lie
Submitted on November 7th, 2009 by mandyKnowledge is what you ppl need first! You don't even know how the benefits system works, but then say and even think that illegal immigrants get more benefits? Haha. Very funny. I'll have to explain as if it's for abc for dummies I guess. If anybody want to argue they better do some research and then bullshit. First of all if you're illegal and have no documents what so ever then you can't get a job or at least buy a car(unless you have foreign DL and you register your car on your name). No DL or ID, tax number, ssc, when you don't have those you can't get any benefit from the government. All the government benefits require those documents. So no medi-cal, foodstamp, financial aid, social security benefits, disability unemployment or pregnancy benefits, does that include all the benefits you're talking about? Or is there more? Mortgage deduction? what the???? If you don't have social security number you can't get a loan or anything whatsoever. And of course you can't pay or return taxes. duh! Or even if they have fake SSC they don't do the taxes, how can they, so they just give away what they've paid instead of getting tax returns with deductibles just like us. So who is robbing who? Oh and who would want to be illegal if there were ways to be legal? There are things we could avoid like: they can go to hospitals and not pay the bill, cause there is no way you can make them pay. They probably don't mind paying taxes as long as they're making money. And I really want to find out how much tax stays in government fund that nobody requests for refund. Would you not get your refund if you're eligible? How many illegal immigrants who worked and paid their taxes don't request any refund? Where does that money go? How come we don't hear anything about it? Since they don't get any benefit why do they have to pay? It's illegal for them to work but legal to pay taxes and not get a refund? This Robert Rector guy says illegal immigrants get 30000$ govermental benefits? How? please tell me so I can tell everyone else that he's not lying. If anybody knows any government benefit that illegal undocumented immigrant can get let me know. Just like it says The 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization except emergency!!!!! medical care and K-12 education. I found myself 2. Only these 2 are enough to spend all the taxes they never got refunded? All you ppl think about is we are the ones who's not getting enough and keep wanting to get more. What about others? What they don't get and what they loose? If they were able to become legal they'll have to pay taxes but also be able to get the benefits they could never get but be accused of. If that was to happen what's gonna happen? They'll pay the taxes but they'll want their benefits so is it gonna make us money, even it out or make it worse? Somebody do the math. I'd like to know. Oh and since most of them don't speak enough english getting a job would make it a lot harder that's why they usually do the worst jobs for cheaper(The ones we don't want to do). Unemployment is still there while there are plenty of jobs in restaurant, tranportation, construction, maintenance and just general labor that don't require degree or training. If you don't want to work there then who does? Why do they always hire? If you think you might loose your job or it affects your wage or salary then work harder, nobody will fire you if you're the better, nobody will decrease your pay. Increase your knowledge , there is always a competition. Why do USA give green cards to those who have special knowledge and extraordinary ability in sciences, arts, education, business or athletics? or certain majors? Cause they can't find enough ppl here? Always looking and judging others ... why not look at ourselves at once? what's it wrong what can we fix? Ourselves first! If it's corrupt itself how can it fix others? If I'm not good enough myself how can I tell you that you're not better than me?
immigrants
Submitted on September 1st, 2009 by claptorAll this talk of how illegal mexicans are ruining our country is more than a little startling to me. It reminds me of how Adolf Hitler convinced Germany the Jewish people were the source of all of their problems. Next people are going to be suggesting illegals should have separate schools, bathrooms, water fountains, and their very own special section on the back of the bus.
Why are only whites the racist ones?
Submitted on July 14th, 2009 by MarthaMcAll American citizens have the right to freedom of speech. Using that right does not make them racist. It is not the color of anyones skin that offends, it is the illegal, lawbreaking status. Let's dwell on the history of white man, geeez! The FACT is American's (I didn't say whites)have worked hard to make America what it is today. It is just not right for someone to come to our country illegal and take that from us. Sure, some American's use welfare as a way of life, but they are not breaking any LAWS! If an American citizen breaks the law, there are penalties. Think of what chaos it would be if everyone demanded the right to break laws because of illegal citizens in our country getting away with it. Why can't American's choose if SS, Medicare, etc are taken from their paychecks? I don't understand either if illegals are so offended by what American's say, why do you come here? We can all sit here and attack each other and accuse each other of being racist. The bottom line here is OUR elected officials are the ones who are not enforcing the laws that allow these illegals to do what they are doing. Most of them just do not want to deal wtih it. If the government would stop supporting them and enforcing laws that stop these greedy business owners from hiring them, the problem would be much better. This is a place for people to post their opinions. If you don't like what you read, go to another website.
the problem is
Submitted on December 2nd, 2008 by Anonymousthat this is true for most families in America. By the time they take their mortgage deductions, receive untaxed income in the form of employer provided benefits, take their reproduction dedductions for each kid, they also use more government services than is covered by the amount of income tax they pay.
A family of four does not pay taxes until they earn more than 43,000 dollars a year, and does not even start to pay for the amount the federal government pays towards a public school education per year until they earn more than twice this.
On the other hand, a single person starts paying taxes just slightly before they reach the poverty level.
About 98 percent of families do not pay out enough in taxes to cover even half of the government provided services than their family take advantage of every day.
Very few families actually do. In general the average family uses much more government services than they pay for, and the difference is made up by either the very wealthy, or much less affluent single taxpayers who do not have little bundles of tax deductions
?jesus?
Submitted on November 18th, 2008 by Anonymousthere really is no big deal jesus is coming back and you guys should just realize that immigrants are going to come whether we try to stoop it or not. now im not for it, but im not against it, but i dont agree with any of you:)
++++jesus loves you+++++
TRIGON11
Submitted on October 30th, 2008 by PabloNo not crazy. In todays world more than in the past its more important to know who is in the country and what kind of risk they may have.
Thus you have criminal elements, health risk elements and terrorist elements which have to be sorted through.
You can not sort through those by ignorning the problem nor making sure the people get their paperwork in order.
To suggest that a mass murderer or a serial child rapist or drug cartel enforcer is just one of the people who are just misrepresented is nonsense.
You have to look at everyone to determine their level of risk and legality.
You simply can not just give a mass murderer a free ride to US citizenship because there are 20 million people undocumented.
Thus the problem has to be resolved one way or the other.
You can not just assume anything.
The truth is that only 25% of the illegals crossing the border do it for work to better their lives to have the American Dream. The rest criminals or people who just want to piss on america while trying to make a buck.
The problem you will find is not about immigration in general. America has the most liberal immigration policy on the planet in law.
The problem is that we have to address all those who are crossing the border illegally who are up to no good.
The only way to prevent those is to look at everyone!
Thus its not about racism or other junk. Its simple respect and wanting to know who is coming into the country.
After all, its not right to give a free pass and a citizenship card to a serial child rapist just because it too much trouble.
That is the real issue.
How to Address Current Immigration Situation
Submitted on October 29th, 2008 by TRIGON11We are allowing the government to frame the immigration problem for us. We must consider that in some cases, such as here, the government is not acting in our own individual best interest.
Thus, the term "illegal" associated with "alien" or "immigrant" is one of the government's invention.
What we as individuals must do is look at the problem from our own perspective. It is my understanding that this has not been done very often and has not been heralded very effectively.
The reality is that foreign nationals are in every recognized nation worldwide, creating a nearly fully integrated polyglot. To somehow require all these people to get their "papers in order" with respect to the local laws of each country is crazy.
There has to be a better, more accommodating, and global solution. Like a national identity card that is accepted worldwide. This different than a passport and should be a smart card with various data on it relevant to the bearer and the country he or she hails from.
Take a look at the end-to-end treatment of the immigration problem that has been prepared by Trigon-International, Inc. This is actionable, affordable, and feasible and more aptly it addresses the problem in situ meaning that the fix goes in without having to reset the pieces on the game board.
hi
Submitted on October 28th, 2008 by Anonymoushi
Anon
Submitted on October 22nd, 2008 by PabloYou are starting to see the light of a leftist government bent on Marxist style socialism.
I am all for immigrants who come here legally. I am against every last illegal alien in the US.
Marrigages to illegal aliens are illegal and under the eyes of the law not valid without permission of the government or INS.
If you ask me, Illegals come to America and they steal all the low paying jobs. They also undercut higher paying jobs as well causing a fundamental collapse of the wages seen in several manufacturing fields.
Meat Packing and Clothing are just the most visable industries who go out of their way to abuse the American Tax payer.
Country Pride packers for example said they could not find any legal workers. After they were raided and lost 70% of their workforce with 2300 illegals being deported, they were hit with US citizens asking for those jobs which was paying Illegals $12 an hour that normally paid $18 to $22 an hour to a US citizen. Yet the US citizens would have taken the $12 an hour. Some 5300 people applied for the jobs that the illegals left vacant.
None of the US citizens got hired and 5 months later the same plant was raided again with 782 illegals being caught and sent for deportation.
The problem is that US businesses have kick backs and other corruptions which they can engage in with the illegals that can never happen with US citizens.
Thus you will see businesses wanting to use illegal labor because they can get away with regulations or other violations along with engaging in payroll fraud. One CEO of a company was using kickbacks to finance his mistress.
Its these things that have to stop. Illegals are not needed and we have more than enought labor in the US to cover all of the labor issues including seasonal produce.
It just requires a strong leader to make it happen.
I just wish that Paul Madison was running for president because he would be good for America and set it to rights!
Anon
Submitted on October 22nd, 2008 by PabloYou are starting to see the light of a leftist government bent on Marxist style socialism.
I am all for immigrants who come here legally. I am against every last illegal alien in the US.
Marrigages to illegal aliens are illegal and under the eyes of the law not valid without permission of the government or INS.
If you ask me, Illegals come to America and they steal all the low paying jobs. They also undercut higher paying jobs as well causing a fundamental collapse of the wages seen in several manufacturing fields.
Meat Packing and Clothing are just the most visable industries who go out of their way to abuse the American Tax payer.
Country Pride packers for example said they could not find any legal workers. After they were raided and lost 70% of their workforce with 2300 illegals being deported, they were hit with US citizens asking for those jobs which was paying Illegals $12 an hour that normally paid $18 to $22 an hour to a US citizen. Yet the US citizens would have taken the $12 an hour. Some 5300 people applied for the jobs that the illegals left vacant.
None of the US citizens got hired and 5 months later the same plant was raided again with 782 illegals being caught and sent for deportation.
The problem is that US businesses have kick backs and other corruptions which they can engage in with the illegals that can never happen with US citizens.
Thus you will see businesses wanting to use illegal labor because they can get away with regulations or other violations along with engaging in payroll fraud. One CEO of a company was using kickbacks to finance his mistress.
Its these things that have to stop. Illegals are not needed and we have more than enought labor in the US to cover all of the labor issues including seasonal produce.
It just requires a strong leader to make it happen.
I just wish that Paul Madison was running for president because he would be good for America and set it to rights!
illegal immigration
Submitted on October 20th, 2008 by AnonymousThis is going to be short,I hope the american government is proud of the great work they are doing for the tax-payers. They have let these illegal immigrants walk right into our country,ruin our schools,jobs,healthcare,and our economy.I haven't heard a peep about illegal immigration from obama or mcCain.But then again they are busy trying to buy the vote of the american people.So when they get in office they can raise our taxes again to take care of our illegal immigrants.Welcome To America! What can we do for you give more and more until we bankrupt our country then yall can go back to yall's country where yall have sent all yall's money that yall made in america!Where are we going to go, oh I know where we can go into a deep depression!
illegal immigration
Submitted on October 20th, 2008 by AnonymousThis is going to be short,I hope the american government is proud of the great work they are doing for the tax-payers. They have let these illegal immigrants walk right into our country,ruin our schools,jobs,healthcare,and our economy.I haven't heard a peep about illegal immigration from obama or mcCain.But then again they are busy trying to buy the vote of the american people.So when they get in office they can raise our taxes again to take care of our illegal immigrants.Welcome To America! What can we do for you give more and more until we bankrupt our country then yall can go back to yall's country where yall have sent all yall's money that yall made in america!Where are we going to go, oh I know where we can go into a deep depression!
Anon
Submitted on July 15th, 2008 by PabloThose US citizens who are the free loaders as you want to point out, are guaranteed the right to have the benefit they get.
Illegals have no rights once so ever! Yet even you admit that Illegals are getting benefits that are reserved for citizens.
I work in the social services area and with the Red Cross. I see way too many legal citizens being turned away because of lack of resources. Yet if you look at the sheer numbers of going it should not be.
The amount of resources set aside for citizens is enough to be $14,000 per citizen. Yet what does the same system say? that the citizens are getting roughly $6500 to $7000 per citizen. That the remainer is being abused mainly by illegals.
See abuse Social security in HR 12 -14 hearings on illegals taking food and money away from US citizens.
I have seen children who will go hungry because some illegal stole from that child!
Even if $1 was taken by an Illegal, its too much! Why should the poorest of the poor in America have to suffer because of a theft by an illegal who is abusing the system and has no rights to the funds.
Some people may seem lazy but are not. I have a brother in law, that had his back broken. He looks fairly normal most of the time and most people think nothing much is wrong with him and I have heard people call him lazy. Yet, he has spent on average 3 months our of every year in the hospital because of the complications from the injury he had.
Its not his fault that he can not work. I feel sorry for him because he will never be able to better himself through hard work and achieve the American Dream which comes to those who work hard for it!
My brother in law would not be where he is today if worker's compensation actually worked for the injured workers in this country! Insurance Companies in general do not pay on claims with some people because they feel that they have a better than 50/50 shot at winning in court. Even if they lose, if they drag it out for years, they made money and they know that most hospitals and doctors write off bad debt after 3 years. Thus if the insurance company can delay out long enough they do not have to pay the amount they should.
But this is about illegals who should not be in the US in the first place! They have no civil rights and they definately should not be allowed access to any benefits or welfare programs!
???
Submitted on July 14th, 2008 by AnonymousAnonymus so claimed PhD:
Now your off the edge. What exactly is your point and what does it have to do with illegal immigration and the burden it puts on our economy, institutions, infrastructure, schools, health care and judicial/criminal systems?
ups
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by AnonymousI forgot the not
" I am Not a person who
likes to insult others."
.
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by AnonymousOh, and it is nothing bad.
I am a person like you
who like to insult people.
The word I told you to
look up is a nice word!
":)"
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by AnonymousWell, I do not care if you trust me.
As I said before, you need to know
who you are talking to. My writing
is excellent for a person in my
condition. By The Way ( guey) is something
that almost everyone knows.
Now, you look up or translate
the word apripulipmentux and it would
describe you. It is an ancient word!
The point is...
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by AnonymousIllegal aliens are illegally in America. Therefore, by law, they must leave or be deported. Period, end of story.
BTW, you write very poorly for a PhD of anything. Look up the term "embellishment".
Oh, and BTW, I doubt that you are a PhD in social sciences AND 'make lots and lots of money' Even if you did, what does that have to do with illegal immigration???
neutral
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by Anonymouswell,i do not know if you consider having a PhD in social sciences as having to intellect but i am making lots and lots of money. that is why i do not worry about illegals. I just live as happy as i can with what i have got by going to school.
from what i have read you are not a very nice person. i was just trying to make mypoint. please excuse me if i hurt your feelings. As i said before, i am neutral in this topic. I was just tring to prove myself that nowadays we do not like listening to others. i wouldrecomend you to start listening and remaining silent for a while. one should respect others the way one wants to be respected. Once again, don't worry and be happy.ok? I was not trying to ofend you a tany point. Hope you understand my opinion. Thank you!!
have a great day
Re: Thoughts
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by AnonymousOut of all the Anonymus' posting on this article, you're bound to run into one dope.
Don't worry, d-bag...continue being a moron. How does it feel going through life sans intellect?
ha-ha
Submitted on July 13th, 2008 by Anonymouswell, sincerely i do not care what you think.
i am very very very happy because illegals will keep coming no matter what!!! you cannot stop that. haha...ha-ha
:)
:)
:)
don't worry, be happy!
Basic human rights, yes Civil Rights, no
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by AnonymousIllegal aliens should be accorded basic human rights, even though they committed the crime of breeching our border, violating our immigration laws and continue violating our country's laws by remaining and operating here.
However, after basic human rights accorded to them...that's it. Civil rights pertain ONLY to citizens. The Merriam-Webster online Dictionary defines civil-rights as: “The nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially: the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to U.S. citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress.”
If one is not a citizen of the country, civil rights do not apply.
I had to REquEst it toO!!!
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by AnonymousBS my a_s!!!!
i lived in southamerica wheni was young. i not how it feels to be judget at school for such things. you should know that illegals come to the country not to do crimes butto satisfy their needs and wants.
plus, why do you have to focus so mucho on th bad stuff? why can't you say anything good about these people. that is all i am looking for. it hurts me to hear so much hate in the country.
a bunch of freeloaders make your country look good!!!
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by Anonymousthe money you pay in taxes goes to the lazy US citizens that do not work because they get welfare. I know many, TOO many people who stay all day at home getting money just for watching tv all the entire they.
You are an immigrant too!! Just because you have blue, green, or hazel eyes your grangrandgrandgrandgrand......parents were illegals too.!!!
plus if you are that old you should know that your money does not go to immigrants. illegals get help but they do not get all your money.
please don't be ridiculous.
Thank you
Anon
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by PabloBS!
I am from a south Pacific Island and had to request for the right to be a US citizen! I was not given as a birth right citizenship but one which I had to request. That's what the department of Indian affairs told my people anyway. So I have relatives who are US citizens and some who are not. It depends on who asked for it. My pass port and file say I am born a US citizen much like native Americans. But its still something that has to be requested by my people not given like the rest. Even illegals who give birth get more rights than my people who are US CITIZENS! DAMN that pisses me off more than you know!!!!
Its not about where you come from either! Its about fundamental issues. Its about the crime, the sheer magnatude of the destruction that is seen in the wake of illegals who disrespect this country.
Have you ever even been on the border Anon? I have. I even owned property on the mexican border. I have been shot at by illegals, drug trafficers and mexican federals. Its the main reason I now carry a gun!
Why is it that people who live far from the border who have absolutely no clue what they are talking about?
The southern border is a war zone in places. Border agents and citizens of this country are being killed every month. Yet its those idiots who live elsewhere in America who thinks that those of us who live close to the border who want law and order and stop the sheer numbers of criminals crossing the borders to protect our families from those illegals who are mostly criminals who are coming here to do crime!!!
Sheesh I wish America would get it!!
rights by life
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by Anonymousminutemen say that illegals are not granted nor etitled to ny rights. BUT i think that they actually have or should have rights just because they are humans. We all deserve to be treated respectfully not like animals. illegals cometo this country willing to be treated better than how they were treated in their country and yet they have a worst treatment here??? THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!
ps
no, illegals do not want to get something at the expense of someone else!!!!
know Your background!!
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by Anonymouswell, it seems like no one is 100percent full american. i am pretty sure that someone in the family of every single minutemen and the authors of all those posts have come from a different country ( not fromthe US). all of us have had a family member who have come illegally to this country. so you should think more about that and stop thinking that all crimes are done by illegals.
there are also american men who steal, kill, kidnap, and more. the only difference is that people like you defend them just because of their status.
Anon
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by PabloIllegal immigrants do get basic respect. However, they do not respect the citizens of this country!
90% of the illegals are doing harm. Harm by bankrupting the healthcare system, harm by taking resources away from US citizens, harm by taking welfare funds away from US citizens ( welfare has been reduced 4 times in the last 2 years because of the numbers of illegals on the program), Harm because they cause 50% or more of all crime in the US, Harm because they are extreme risk to the health and safety of this country( who knows what kind of diseases and other items that they may bring into the US and cause massive outbreaks and a health crisis like 2000 where some illegals brought in a new strain of yellow fever causing the deaths of some 70 American citizens), harm to the job market and the list goes on.
Its not immigrants in general that is the problem. Its those who enter illegally that are the problem. It has nothing to do with respect from the citizens of the US. Where is the respect of our borders? Where is the respect of the laws of this country and that list goes on and on.
Illegals have the idea along with many traitors here in this country who seem to think that illegals have more rights than they do. Illegals have basically no rights other than basic human rights and the basic laws governing the courts.
Illegals are not supposed to be able to get welfare, full healthcare, vote in our elections, get government backed loans and that list goes on and on.
Its time to turn the tap off for the illegals and stop the 4 trillion dollar bleeding wound that the illegals cause to this country!
Say whhhhhhaaaaaaattttttttt?
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by AnonymousWhose the d-bag who said "Americans (minuteman) care more about money than life" Who also said "illegal immigrants deserve more respect."
Both statements are about the most moronic ones that I've ever heard.
Americans ( minutemen) care about money not life!!
Submitted on July 12th, 2008 by AnonymousI am neutral, not against illegal immigrants nor with them, but i think that they deserve more respect. the way we are treating them is terrible. minutemen care about money and costs rather than in thelives of these people. please try to walk in their shoes for a while. what is you were from let's say Peru and you decide to come to the US but you hear people talking bad stuff about you all the time, how would you feel? please keep that in mind.
thank you
Anon
Submitted on July 9th, 2008 by PabloMy facts are correct.
I took a shot at both the republicans and the democrats. Yet the democrats are worse on the issue of immigration than the republican by policy and by how they vote!
Based on just 16 states and their studies and audits, the problem of illegals and the cost of healthcare exceeds 2 trillion dollars!
The government states that there is between 7 and 12 million illegals. The government I mean congressmen and the president!
You listen to the INS and they say there is between 17 and 24 million illegals.
New Orleans is was a problem at the local, State and Federal level.
Ask anyone from Louisiana and they will tell you that there is no other place in the US that has as many corrupt policians than down in the New Orleans area!
There is plenty of blame to go around!
There was places in Alabama that was just as bad hit as the New Orleans! Yet they are better off and they got less support from FEMA than New Orleans!
Why do you think that is? You have horrid corruption top down in Louisiana that has gotten in the way of some of the help! You then have the mind set of some people that the government is responsible for the total bill of rebuilding homes and businesses.
That is nonsense! The government is to help no do for those who were in the disaster! The government is supposed to help not do all the work!
That has been part of the problem is that people expected the government to go in a rebuild their houses for them!
No that is not the responsiblity of FEMA or the government.
Yes I am aware that FEMA screwed up and has been slow in dealing with some issues.
However, State and local governments have been more of a barrier to the people than the Federal government! You should listen to what the contractors and the people who are in the business of rebuilding are saying about all the BS they have to go through just to build new house! Its even more of a nightmare for houses that are being rebuilt!
The corruption at the local and state level is roughly 70% of the problem there. The government's red tape and delays were 30%.
As I pointed out in Alabama which had just as bad damage and had whole communities destroyed, have taken FEMA money and have rebuilt most of those communities! Why is Alabama not having the problem that New Orleans is having? Alabama people should be more pissed off because they got less help from FEMA! Yet they have had less problems in reconstruction and have almost got back to normal!
Its not a republican not a democratic issue. Its a generalized politics issue and political corruption which has caused the delays in New Orleans.
Its also time for people in New Orleans to lift themselves up by their own boot straps and not expect someone else to do all the work and bear 100% of the cost!
Look I have had a home totally destroyed by a national disaster! A tornado! I have had FEMA give me a check! But I was expected to take that money and rebuild my life.
What most of the New Orleans people have done is take some of the money and live off the money way better than they had before but do not rebuilding!
There are lots of New Orleans natives that are still in West Texas and living in so called temporary shelters!
I know for a fact because I am with the Red Cross that most of them have gotten a FEMA check! Yet none have taken that money and gone out to rebuild anything! Many went out and bought new cars! Not just any car but very expensive cars! Many bought 48 inch plasma TVs that barely fit in the apartments they are in!
Yet they all could have taken the same money, and either bought a small house or rebuilt a house!
So do not blame New Orleans totally on the government! Yea the government dropped the ball on some but those are the few and far apart!
I have paid in taxes since i
Submitted on July 6th, 2008 by AnonymousI have paid in taxes since i was 18,now i am almost 60 yrs. old and have to buy groceries,clothes and etc. for my grandchildren while they take my money and give it to immigrants who should have been sent home when they arrived here in the first place then maybe my daughter could get some help with her children and she doe's work six day's a week and cannot make it without my help. Quit giving my tax dollars away to people who should not be over here and help my daughter and grandchildren. If you can't do any better with my tax dollars,send them to me so i can quit work,which i am not able to be doing,so i can help my grandchildren and daughter. I am not working to help a bunch of freeloaders and dope dealers.
Liberals for open borders
Submitted on July 6th, 2008 by AnonymousPablo, You need to get your facts right, and your parties. It is the Republicans aka Conservatives who support the corporates. Corporations run this country thanks to them. George Bush has had eight years to close the borders and he has not! And don't blame Congress, it was dominated by Conservatives up to the last year and a half of Bush's term.
It is the corporates who benefit the most by illegal labor, they hire them. You talk about liberals feeling a sense of entitlement with government give away programs. What about the billions upon billions of $ given to corporates in tax breaks, namely oil companies? What about bailing out the banks that committed fraud in the mortgage crisis? Do you look at these as entitlements? It is my tax money that Bush is handing over to these wealthy companies.
Those liberals you are quick to run down are the ones who started Social Security, public schools, and stopped child labor, and sweat shops.
It is the Republicans (conservatives) who turned their backs on New Orleans.
The Democrats (Liberals) have always been the party of the common people, where the Republicans (conservatives) have always been for business, corporates, and big money. While they claim they stand for less government they are the ones who manage to always enlarge it while in office.
You are right, greed has taken over this country, with big help by the present administration. Gas was $1.46 when Bush took office and $22 a barrel.
You are wrong about 'the more rich the more liberal.' It is the more rich the more conservative. Check your facts.
$100 billion
Submitted on July 5th, 2008 by AnonymousTaxpayers in our country pay more than $100 billion every year on health care and other services for illegal immigrants, including education, law enforcement costs, and housing. – U.S. Congressman Dean Heller-Jan. 2008 http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/2008...
Illegal Aliens and the gangster mindset
Submitted on July 5th, 2008 by AnonymousIllegal aliens have a unique, gangster-style vision of the American Dream that has been emboldened by the likes of Bush, Obama, Clinton, McCain and globalist corporatists who can’t do without their indentured servants.
In the illegal alien’s corrupt minds, they think it makes perfect sense, both logically and morally, to ignore America's borders, immigration laws, employment laws, income tax laws and any law that stops them from pursuing their far greater objective. They feel entitled to pursue their own personal enrichment at the expense of the American citizen, worker and taxpayer.
The criminal immigrant whom is killing our country
Submitted on July 4th, 2008 by sparklegrassIm sorry but all you libs bleed all you want and just sit back and let our country get taken over. I live in a boarder town and know this all too well. My children's father is AMERICAN Mexican and has many relatives who live in Mexico. The Mexico family is always fighting with the AMERICAN citizen side of the family, because the immigrant relatives wants them to let them use "their" physical addresses or find a way to rob someone's social security number ( which I am a victim of among many boarder town people I know ) so they can get free food stamps, housing and access ( med insurance ). This is why you see all these criminal "ILLEGALS" driving around in brand new trucks wearing Tommy Hilfiger and having huge family cook outs at the local parks. Wow....I could afford to buy a new truck too, wear nice clothes, pay my mortgage and have steak every night if I didn't have to pay $800 med insurance,$400 on groceries every month and a $1000 mortgage. This is VERY common because I know allot of Mexican citizens and I hear the story ALL the time. It's a big joke to them..... It makes me sick. They find other ways to do it as well without going through their families and it is very easy once they across the boarder. Hummm...whats wrong with this picture? I don't have to know the politics of this all...it is what it is and you can spin it till the sun don't shine. By they way, why has the term ILLEGAL lost it's meaning?
Don't get me started on the Social Security fraud going on down here....it's amazing how easy this has become.
HUNGER?! rofl When have you
Submitted on May 24th, 2008 by AnonymousHUNGER?! rofl When have you EVER seen a starving Mexican? Most of them are downright chubby! Even the skinny ones look well-fed.
RACIST WHITE PEOPLE?
Submitted on May 14th, 2008 by AnonymousA bit hypocritical eh? I can't stand intolerant people. I totally hate people who hate other people. Everyone has a right to say whatever they want unless they actually want people to obey laws, pay taxes, and support their own families without government support.
Tancredo for President 2012
Liberals are for open borders
Submitted on May 7th, 2008 by PabloLiberals often see no government at all. Or that government is to provide some sort of entitlement that is personally viable to the liberals but not to any other group.
Thus the voice of the one or the few are more important than the voice of the majority or many.
Under this idea, the extreme rich Liberals since only the rich can have these ideals or their children or college students who like the idea and its draw see this as wonderful
Cheap labor for me and screw everyone else.
Liberals can not see past their selfish nose.
They could careless if their neighbors are drowing or hurting by their own actions. But their neighbors are required or demanded to line up when their agenda is put out there. Liberals will even try to get the government to inforce its ideals even at the expense of the majority.
Example. Religion in schools more commonly known as prayer in school. a fraction which is less than 4 % of the population got the government to destroy the rights of 96% of the rest of America.
How can that be? its who has the money. The more rich, the more liberal and elitist they are and how they act more in line with Kings in the past with their point of views and would have oppression as long as that oppression is of their brand.
one word to the liberals: A-Z-T-L-A-N
Submitted on May 7th, 2008 by Minuteman CALook up AZTLAN if you don't understand what is happening here. Recommended site:
www.LAVOZDEAZTLAN.net
Look up MeCHa. Type in a search: what is MeCHa?
Be prepared to see what the media downplays. This is an invasion by many. Wake up.
Who can you blame?
Submitted on May 7th, 2008 by AnonymousPeople are only trying to get a better life, just as anyone would do it. However, the difference is that the same people that are against immigration are also in favor under the table. The United States can invade other countries around the world as it pleases, and though,the US can't control who enter into the country? There is something bigger behind this. The goverment itself allows this for a bigger reason, that it is not known for the majority. It's all about the power and politics!! But nobody sees it, people discriminate and abuse one another so blindly.
Racism???
Submitted on May 7th, 2008 by sleekoMexican is not a race. It's a nationality. A legal title given to citizens of Mexico, by the Mexican government, in exchange for allegence to Mexico. "Mexican" is no more a racial descriptive than is "American". It takes more than black hair, brown skin and a European last name (Spanish is a European language)to be a Mexican.
Know what you mean
Submitted on May 6th, 2008 by PabloI have a friend married a woman from Europe. He filled out all the paperwork and submitted it.
He complained about the delay and when he filed a complaint about the extra time it took, ICE told him the delay was because ICE did not have enough agents to process the legal applications but all new hires were being sent to process the illegals they catch or process through the prison system.
That all those illegals in prison often challenge their being caught and sent to jail for crimes they have committed. Thus by law, ICE has to reinvestigate each and every case to make sure that no illegal was put into jail wrongly.
My friend had a delay of 7 months and was married some 11 months after filing for the visa. I have sponsored an immagrant who was a round about relative from the south Pacific and it took 29 months for the paperwork to be completed.
Yea it takes time to being in legal immagrants. But we are back to the effects of illegal immigrants effecting the legal ones.
Rewarding the illegals , Punishing the Legal immigrants
Submitted on May 6th, 2008 by AnonymousI knew very little in regards to Immigration until I decide to bring my Wife from China to USA in 2007.
I have never seen so much red tape in regards to " qualifying" for her immigration and the fact it is quicker to bring her in as a fiancee instead of a wife. We allow the mexicans to "swim" over with no documentation , no proof of self support , no criminal background check , no health check. It took me 4 months of paperwork and documentation of finance's and many other items with a seasoned attorney's help just to be able to submit my application. If we were to punish the Illegals and reward the immigrants attempting to enter legally , we would have a better class of citizens adding to the countries health instead of detracting from it. I truely believe this country's strength is untouchable from outside forces , but instead will allow itself to be destroyed from the inside and the immigration problem will be the catalyst for it.
Magnet Schools not for whites
Submitted on May 6th, 2008 by PabloThe Magnet program that was established by Carter and reinforced ever since was to help inner city kids to have the same high level education as the suburbs. Or so the idea went.
If you are refering to the elite accademy schools which are simular to magnet schools they are predominately white. These are for kids who are generally considered the top 1% and are in the honor classes or part of the early college programs. Call it what you want, that is how its funded. sometimes they are in the same building but one set is teaching remedial english and the other side is getting college credits.
Its not race in general here. But demographics.
White America put more effort into education of the children than the blacks did along race lines. For many years the black community had an almost 60% drop out rate during the 1960s and most of the 1970s. Now there is an effort to correct this.
But it will take decades to fix. It takes effort. Most white people send their kids to headstart type of programs when the kid is 2 years old on average. I call it a type of head start but its not the same.
My parents one white one Polynesian sent me to preschool when I was 3. I was then sent to tutoring to get a better education than the school could provide from a retired college professor even though I was an A student.
Its a mentality issue. Just as some people think that math is hard and art is easy its all about perception. Math is only hard if you were told it was hard and the people around you thought it was hard. Same for science, English or whatever.
I still struggle with English at times. I speak 4 languages and english was not my first but second.
Thus people miss what is what. Because I looked white I went to one of the first accadamy programs. Those kids that struggles and were mostly Black and hispanic went to the magnet schools.
The only time I ever was in the same class with them was for PE or athletics.
Its when you invest in your kids and their success in education that you suddenly get it.
My son is 12 and is a A B student. He is on the honor roll. He will even make the national honor society as the grade point is high enough. If you figure the curve they give him for his classes he is a 4.11 student.
My daughter who is now 5 will be in preschool next year. Yet she currently reads at 4th grade level and knows her multiplication tables to 15.
I sent her to early achievers classes as its called here. She was taught to read and write since age 2 and has been going to this type program basically year around except when the family goes on holiday or there is breaks for the regular holidays like Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter or New Years.
Its all about how much you put into education as to what you get back out. My kids go to public school so that they can socially fit in and be more adjusted in life. But I do not accept that the school does enough for my kids.
Thus I set the standard and then work to see that my kids can meet or exceed that standard.
This is not a White only concept. Most Asian families do this as a rule. Which is why my parents put so much effort into my education and I have seen the benefits of this first hand.
Thus my kids will be getting early college credits and most likely will be getting Post graduate degrees 4 to 6 years younger than the average.
My Son's program will have him as either a Junior or Senior in college by the time he is 18 and walks across the stage to get his high school diploma. He will be bused to the local college to take one or two college classes starting this fall. He then returns to the high school campus to take Band, Athletics, Civics and history. He may have to take an English or math class in High school before he is allowed to in College. But I doubt it. He already took the SAT and scored as a 12 year old 1030.
That number is not all that impressive in general but its damn good for a 12 year old. You need 1025 to get into any college in Texas be it UT, A&M or Texas Tech. Although you may have to take non credit classes meet the standard but as a resident of Texas its 1025.
Some college allow for the lower scores if other factors are in effect. percent this or score that on section 1 and 2 but bomb 3 and so forth. But all have a raw score entrance set by the state for public schools at 1025.
So is it about race? yes and no. Although there is a racial divide, its a result of cultral factors. There is no educational shortfall between any child of any color. Its more a matter of how much the parents put into the child's education and how much the make sure the child succeeds.
Its not enough to send a child to school. Its still not enought to make sure the child does the homework. But the truth is most Americans can not even do the homework of their kids and thus refuse to get involved with the child's school because they are afraid they will look dumb to their own children.
Pride is for dummies as my mother once told me. If you do not know the answer, get someone who knows the answer to help you. Thus its time America stops complaining about bad teachers, or bad schools or schools that have low graduation rates verses another school somewhere else.
The truth is that most parents do not want to be parents. They do not want to be responsible for the educational health of their child.
But the truth is that the kid is yours not the states. Its your child that you have to put clothes on. Its your child you need to feed and put a roof over their head and not the state.
Thus it should not be of any suprise that you the parent are just as responsible for the educational health of your child just as much as feed, clothing and shelter of the your own child. As a parent, you have to parent which means, teach the child how to succeed in life. Thus you have to make some sacrifies for the child. But that parenting!
Jrios
Submitted on May 6th, 2008 by PabloYours is an empty argument.
You make a huge assumptions rather than allow for the facts.
According to the Immigration and naturalization service, for Central and latin America the average is 45 months if they are clean from criminal issues.
So the truth is that those who are crossing the border are either criminals or just plain do not want to wait almost 4 years to get to America legally.
With no border security to speak of, and many places which will hide them and protect them and give them stuff for nothing if they just show up, its no wonder they do not wait for legal means.
If I was from Mexico or somewhere south of the border and I knew that if I made it to certain cities that I get free housing, food, transportation and money just by showing up and saying I am here, then yea I would cross the border illegally and tell others screw you because I can get more doing it illegal than legal.
If I was a criminal and want to continue my criminal enterprise, which the trend is the attachment to M 13 then there is no path to citizenship. Thus I will cross the border to prey on the innocent stupid American.
And according to ICE and the FBI 4 of every 5 Illegals are here for criminal acts. Then that says way more than anything else.
Minuteman CA
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by ToniI totally agree with you. Illegals and special interest groups always raise the racism rant when sound logic disputes their positions. I too came from a poor family, went to college, married, and had a family. My grandparents came to America thru Ellis Island. They LEGALLY immigrated here from Italy. They learned English, worked hard to provide for their family. Life is what you make of it. And there are choices in life good and bad. I say the Illegal immigrant made the wrong choice in coming here with fraudulent documents, and many times stolen identity. So if the Illegals truly want America as their adopted country, then go back to their country of origin and apply legally. I for one will say welcome to America.
Tom Tancredo is right.
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by Minuteman CASo, I suppose that you are in support of the illegal invasion. I can only assume because you hide behind anonymnity.
Tancredo was dead on. We are faced with a very real threat to the future of this country. I'm not sure what your rantings about abortion had to do with anything. I'm pro-choice by the way, but I also think we should sterilize the ignorant (so you would get an express ticket).
I'm pro-choice, because I figure that there are enough people out there who really don't need to be contributing to the gene pool. The odds of cathing a few of them before they meet a timely demise and without having offspring are in our favor.
As for immigration and all the white racists, what about LaRaza, MeCHa, Aztlan activists, the Hispanic caucus, the Black caucus, the NAACP, Trinity United Church, The Nation of Islam, BET, Fabian Nunez, Antonio Villiaragosa, and the Obama/Wright duo?
Personally, I care more about what it says that people expect somethign for nothing than the color of thier skin or the language that they speak. The illegal immigrants are not granted any rights comparable to citizens under the U.S. Constitution, nor should they be. What about the people, my future mother-in-law included who immigrated LEGALLY from South America and became a citizen? The behaviour and even the notion that illegals should be respected for immediately showing what they have to offer by breaking this country's laws upon arrival is sickening. Deport them one and all.
So you want equality?
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by Minuteman CABLAH, BLAH, BLAH..
The last I checked, it appears to be 2008. DO you want to know what I am tired of? I am tired of having liberal whiners like yourself constantly remind me of things that happened before I was even born.
Guess what? I am white and I was born to a poor family, but I made it to college through my military committment. Every person in this country has the same opportunity to excel. NO excuses.
Stop whining about things that happened more than fifty years ago and do something for yourselves. The problem is that most people focus on something other than gaining equality. What you want is to gain something at someone else's expense, I'd bet. If you want to talk about racism, then let's talk about affirmative action, the NAACP, LaRAZA, MeCHa,the Black Caucus, the Hispanic Caucus and Aztlan.
The topic is Illegal Immigration and not racism, so stay on topic. The only thing to discuss there is that Illegals are not citizens and therefore are not granted nor entitled to any rights.
reply to "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION"
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by Anonymous"I atually know these "migrants". My son attended first and second grade at Plaencia Magnet in Los Angeles....."
First of all....Did you know that the "Magnet schools" were stablished strictly for the benefit of WHITE PEOPLE only back in the 50's and 60's ????
These Schools had special programs, equipment, better trained teachers, etc. etc. but the also GARANTEED 90% of all seats to white people only.
so, let's talk about RACISM by white peoople onto others, so-called "minority" groups, first and then we'll address other issues.
racism by whites is a cancer that keeps eating at this nation.
Racist rants....left wing crazy
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by ToniYou apparently have your "fruit of the loom" tied in a knot. Or have been swigging down Rev. Wright laced Kool-aid, while you have been flipping the dial from MSNBC to YouTube in the net. In any event, seek profession help. Your supposed friend Obama, the only help he'll provide you is a cot in a re-education camp!
Illegals and Social Security
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by ToniThere is a treaty with Mexico and many other countries that gives the foreign worker Social Security benefits after working 8 years in the USA. They take 10 years work history in Mexico or whatever country they came from and add the USA work history to equal 18 months, and bingo they are eligible for Social Security benefits. If you call Social Security on this matter, they will say talk to your Congressman to complain, but this is a treaty with these countries. They will go to say, the same holds true if you migrate to Mexico or Germany, France etc.., they have to provide the same benefit criteria. Now honestly, do you really think we Americans would get the same response to benefits in those countries? America needs to wake up and stop the insanity. The foreign worker is laughing all the may to the nearest check cashing establishment. If we are stupid enough to give the benefits, they will take them!
to:Minuteman CA---Tom Tancredo??
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by AnonymousTancredo the most VILE RACIST MAGGOT in Politics (Well, second to Sensenbrenner)
Racist white people who attack even the UNBORN do not have a place in American Gov. and MUST BE REMOVED at the next Electoral cycle!
It is despicable that a Human being who has not even arrived on this world (Unborn) is already the target of RACIST WHITE PEOPLE!!
Tancredo and Sensenbrenner need to be removed from the US GOV.
Just like JD Hayworth (AZ) and McClintock (CA) were removed in 2006 for their VILE RACIST behavior and sent to Political Oblivion!!!
(Hayworth was up for re-election in 2006 so just before Christmas 2005 he delivered his last Super-racist statements on the Dobbs show to "Katie" finishing by wishing Katie a "Merry Xmas" He stayed absoutely quiet for the entire year of 2006 hoping to get re-elected but the people DI NOT forget!
and the Racist Maggot was summariy REMOVED!! and sent back to Greensboro NC (KKK country)home where he belongs!!
Racist Maggots!
3 to 4 years?
Submitted on May 5th, 2008 by Jrios"Send them home to where they came from. If they are really wanting the American dream, let them apply through proper channels. It may take them 3 to 4 years to get back to the US but they will be on the road to citizenship and because a real active part of the country rather than a burden and danger to the US as a whole."
3 to 4 years? Don't you think people would be lined up if it were only 3 to 4 years?? I think you are referring to the other immigration system...the one set up for Anglo European immigrants...no not that one, the one for Mexicans. Truth is Pablo that if a person comes over legally and wants to bring over a loved one, it takes an average of 40 years! 40 YEARS man! I doubt there is a single person on this website who would wait that long to bring a loved one over.
You say that these people are a burden and a danger to the U.S. as a whole...your words. Please explain how, without using words spewed by Orielly or Dobbs. In your own words, explain to me how these 'illegals' have disrupted your life...please.
You said that you have worked on people's legal papers, shouldn't you be telling the truth on whats really going on?
Disposable Hispanic America
For Jrios
Submitted on May 4th, 2008 by PabloWhere are all those Americans who want the jobs that the street illegals take?
The register with legitamate Day Labor businesses or show up at the unemployment office so that they will not get screwed.
Here in Texas you get benefits by going to the Unemployment office, and they get any temporary work gets applied to Social Security and it prevents many people and companies from hiring at one wage and paying another which is major problem within the temporary labor market unless you are registered.
Many Americans that do jump into the backs of trucks have at times not gotten paid for the hard job they did be it roofing when the temperature is above 100°F to doing landscaping, painting and other basic manual labor jobs.
I have helped thousands file the grievance forms with the State employment agency to recover the money they were owed. But then if they have no paperwork or proof they went to work or written contract for the amount of wage they were to earn if more than minimum wage then they are just out of luck.
So the American Worker most of the time and being more than 95% register somewhere. After all would you jump in the back of a truck with a promise of high wage only to find at the end of the job that the employer either paid you incorrectly or not at all. How many times would you allow yourself to get burned before you realize that you need to protect yourself from Employers who are taking advantage of those people who are despirate. These employers take advantage of both legal and illegal people. The difference is that Legal citizens have legal recourse and knowledge that the state tracks companies or people who have a track record of doing this.
I know of several people who pray on Illegals. One sells a car to the illegals but does not give title because an Illegal can not have title. This lady then calls the police a week or two later or ICE and reports the Illegals where she then gets the car back which she then resells. I know she sold the same car 7 times last year alone at $800 per pop. She has done that for years. I have seen this happen with housing, and with certain jobs. The illegal may work a month doing work only to have ICE take them away before they are paid.
This happens all the time and represents about 25% of those trying to seek work, housing and transportation.
Then you have the illegals which are criminal, can not read any english driving on the roads of our cities. There are 19 cases in Amarillo of Illegals in major auto accidents where it was known that the illegals never have driven a car before an in some cases wrecked the car within hours of getting a car illegally where they had no insurance because they could not register or license the car.
Its a complex problem to say the least.
As I have stated over and over, for the safety and security of our Nation to protect the innocent be they illegal or legal, Secure the borders both Southern first and northern second and return all the illegals to the country of their origin. If they have no major criminal record abroad or here in the US, let them apply legally to come to the US. The general wait is 3 years on average.
Some could get temporary Green cards for agriculture purposes almost immediately.
But for the security and safety of our nation, we have to know who is crossing into the US. Prevent Illegal drugs, kidnappers and other criminals to Terrorists crossing into America for only one purpose which is to harm Americans or Kill Americans.
Its not a race issue or ecconomic in general. There is no shortage of workers in the US. In fact, we could open up some of the low security prisons to do work details to pick fruit and vegitables to picking up trash along the highways to doing general construction. Make it voluntary. Its legal and in 47 States it happens already in small scale or for special projects.
America has no worker shortage and all the temporary work that is needed in America could be filled by the prison or criminal justice system.
Most people do not realize that its alreay in place.
If I need a day labor person, I call the local probation office and ask for a work who is required to pay back money that they owe to victims while they serve their sentence. They work during the day and sit in jail at night. Other are just on probation and have to report 2 days out of each week to do this kind of work.
Thus you get the day labor that most businesses need and you have the knowledge that the money you paid goes to the victims of crime.
Truth is truth jrios.
There is no benefit that the illegals do here in America. They take jobs, so crimial acts because 4 of 5 are here for criminal acts such as drug trafficing to other crimes to causing Healthcare failures and finacial burden to the burden it puts on the jails and prisons around the nation.
Send them home to where they came from. If they are really wanting the American dream, let them apply through proper channels. It may take them 3 to 4 years to get back to the US but they will be on the road to citizenship and because a real active part of the country rather than a burden and danger to the US as a whole.
Truce
Submitted on May 3rd, 2008 by JriosO.k Pablo, I see your point. Most of what you are saying is true, but I don't live on a border town, I live about 120 miles inland and I have not seen Mexicans lining up on corners, anywhere. If these jobs were as desireable as you say then where are all the American citizens jumping into trucks? I can count white guys, on any given construction site, with my fingers. Do they no longer want to do construction, or is there fewer and fewer white construction workers out there? I doubt it.
We need to focus on whats causing the immigration problem. You see immigration is not really the illness but a symtom of the illness. The illness is Mexican and American greed, this greed is manifest through NAFTA. Are you aware of the utter chaos nafta has caused in Latin America? If not, one only has to look at our immigration 'problem'. You can clearly see how the poor and desperate have risked life and limb directly becuase our elected officials have agreed to allow greedy American companies the right to suck up all of Mexico's resources, and believe me they suck!
Now we have a flood of hunger comming into our country in search of more fertile grounds becuase of a lack of fertile grounds back home. Cause and effect, plain and simple.
Disposable Hispanic America
Social Security
Submitted on May 3rd, 2008 by JriosDid you know that Bush has allready been tapping into OUR social security checks for himself and his crew's benefit? This war is lining their pockets...in case you haven't noticed...and our SS benefits have been paying part of the debt. There may not be anything left for us by the time we reach retirement. The point is, is that the blame for SS going down the drain should not be put on immigrants but our own elected officials. If our car breaks do we blame the car model or do we blame our vehicular abuse? Where did we go so wrong as to blame anyone for everything? We blame the Mexicans for bringing drugs, but we place the orders!
Let's talk about the money these 'illegals' are putting into the SS system with no chance of ever seeing it again...no chance. These guys go around using dead people's SS numbers all the time. Where's all that money going? Who's getting it, and are they showing a surplus? Or are OUR elected officials pocketing the money and staying hush hush about it? The New York Times reported that the dollar amount went into the billions...BILLIONS! What, oh what has become of those billions? Maybe we should be taking responsibility for voting for morons instead of blaming Mexicans for our burnt chocolate chip cookies.
I do agree with you though, on today's greed. I call it the age of greed. If you'll look at the gas prices and the cost of insurance you can tie the two together with only one common denominator...they are both the biggest lobbyest in Washington! They pay the right bills and are allowed to run amuck at our expense. Congress looks the other way while they rape us. Are we going to blame this on immigrants too? If we are then let's start voting for Pedro at the polls, if they're going to get the blame they might as well get paid for it.
Disposable Hispanic America
No gain for Social Security
Submitted on May 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousWhen the time comes, illegal alians, with the help of the likes of the ACLU, will sue for SS benefits whether they paid in or not. In our stupid courts they will win. We will then start sending them checks, including conversion costs to pesos and postage costs to get it to them in their vacations retirement homes in Mexico. A SS check from the USA will be a very substantial income in Mexico. Like the slave labor our forefathers enjoyed in their time haunts us today, our grandchildren will pay for our cheap labor. Today's greedy don't care about tomorrow.
Proof we are the dumbest of the industrial nations
Submitted on May 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousWhen we allowed equal amount of immigration from all countries, then we will be able to prosper as a nation. We can look at the DNA of such countries from years ago and see the great county we once was.
Today we can look at the Nation DNA and see a growing DNA of countries that have not prospered for century's. They come here and devalue the voting balance by one race voting. The come here illiterate and unable to take care of there own country's, and are inexperienced and unwilling to change to benifit America. They are takers rather than givers, and refuse proper English communication skills vitale in keeping the country great.
One other thing Jrios
Submitted on May 2nd, 2008 by PabloI also Live in West Texas.
I have not had any legals run across my back yard nor have any of them take my job. I doubt they could do it.
But I have seen Illegals trample through a friends property by the thousands to the point that there is a trail.
I have run a state employment agency where many of the Illegals show up to try and get or apply for work.
I have seen illegals line up on the street corner and jump in the backs of cars and trucks to do day labor work. It happens everywhere even in your town! I doubt you would dare admit it that you have seen it. Because honestly, Everyone in Texas from Houston to Dallas from Brownsville to Amarillo and even from El Paso to Texarkana have illegals on the street corners going after jobs that American Citizens want and have registered for!
Some people just do not care or are ignorant about whom they hire.
I owned a piece of property right on the border. I called ICE nearly daily because of the numbers of illegals that cross that property and damaged it. I eventually sold that property because I got tired of doing the repairs caused by the illegals.
Though I never lived on that property, I know exactly what happens there. That property was up the Rio Grande from Presido by about 52 miles. Its one of the most used Drug trafficing routes ever seen. Yet at the time I owned that property, Clinton was president and the Border Patrol was a joke and I would bet you a million dollars its still a joke in that same region.
immigration
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by AnonymousYou've said a mouthful. But it's not just the Mexicans. We have the Cubans, and South Americans all of whom demand we live according to their customs and learn their language. You can't walk into a business and expect anyone to speak to you in English. They get more in government assistance then Americans can get in Social Security, that they have earned and paid into. Plus Food Stamps and whatever else they need. But an American cannot get food stamps if they own a cemetary plot. Let alone any help if necessary. Our government even sends many of our jobs to India and the Phillipines. When have you called customer service at any credit card or banking company and been able to speak to anyone in this country. This country is geared for the rich and to hell with the rest of the people.
happy may day..
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by Minuteman CAhappy may day..and now..go home...
In the words of Tom Tancredo, "America is Full."
We don't need illegals here.
AS for all of the legal immigrants, my future mother-in-law included, we welcome you honoring our laws and our culture.
to the rest...if you could read this..then, you would know that you are not welcome..
in an American tradition.."Don't Tread On Me."
**read my blog on political correctness for more insight.
My name
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by PabloNo its not mexican. Nor am I of Mexican decent.
I was named after a great grandfather that was Spanish and from Spain. He was blond hair and blue eyed.
So that should teach you not to base anything on a racial assumption.
But I have seen up close and personal the effect of illegals have on the ecconomy as well as on the society as a whole.
Most are not here for the American Dream. I liked the CNN report yesterday that said that many Illegals were going back to Mexico because times are bad in America and that the day labor jobs they commonly take are drying up.
That tells you two things. That the majority of the illegals do not have steady jobs. And are using the day labor market because it is the easiest to get work without documentation.
But when Tyson, and Pilgrams Pride have been repeatedly raided for hiring illegals and they haul off not one or two but upwards of 50 to 100 off of a shift that normally has 150 to 200 workers says volumes.
There are thousands of American Citizens who want those same said jobs! Both Tyson and Pilgrams pride have been flooded with applications of Americans wanting those jobs that was previously held by Illegals.
Yet these two companies continue to hire and recruit Illegals to work in their plants. Why?
Illegals get paid less, Have no insurance, most of the time are left undocumented while they are working in the plant. Thus the company hides exactly how much it pays these workers, Does not pay Worker's Compensation and does not have to report any OSHA accidents by these workers because they officially are not on the employment rolls.
Its time that America gets tough on the employers who hire illegals. It only costs an employer $75 a month to chech a person out for legal status. Or $75 per 200 persons being checked. Background checks cost $50 for 20 persons who may need to work in sensitive areas.
This is virtually nothing to 99% of all businesses in America. All Businesses can afford $75 to verify its employees. Those they do not want to, take that position because they like hiring illegals to get around paying taxes or for paying insurance as well as pocketing the difference in wages that the illegal should be paid verses what they charge the consumer.
Spit to smile or smile to spit?
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by JriosWhat kind of a name is Pablo anyway? Isn't it Mexican? Pablo your absolutely right, noone can pull the wool over your eyes, becuase someone allready has! Don't feel bad or alone, the whole country has been led to believe that we are undersiege by rampaging savages who intend only to suck up our government cheese and steal our jobs! I can't really blame you though, I've seen Blood in blood out, and American Me. These movies scare the Hell out of me, then to see that Hispanics and Mexicans have never done anything for anyone!! Let's get rid of them.
Truth is though that Hispanics, Mexicans and Mexico have played major roles in the welfare of you and me. Of course noone here can even guess by just how much, and it's noone's fault but our own government. Our government has not sung the praises over the contributions made by Mexicans, Hispanics or Mexico...its easier to spit than it is to smile.
Assumptions? Me?
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by JriosMamm, your bashing me for 'assuming' things yet you just assumed that I am aiding and or abetting illegals! Lol, this is quite unique to say the least. I see that you are from Washington, you folks must be on the verge of civil war up there due to all the stuff you here going on down here...in my backyard. You see, I live about 100 miles from the Texas-Mexican border and I've yet to loose my construction yob, (punn intended), to an illegal. I've yet to experience Mexicans running across my front or back yard, yet to be assaulted, raped, tortured, beaten, robbed or have my cat swiped by anyone...much less an 'illegal'.
I understand that from time to time we all make mistakes with typos, but for you to sit here and bash me for "incorrect usage" then to misspell the word of, with 'af' at the very beginning of your very first sentence is hilarious. At your 2nd to last sentence you spell the word 'you', youj! Please stop! Your killing me!
You say that all 'illegals' are doing is "using our resources and causing trouble", I imagine thats what Lou Dobbs and Orielly are saying. Please tell me one instance in which your personal life has been disrupted by an 'illegal', or maybe it was a Hispanic.
Would I not mind deporting Canadians
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by AnonymousYour lack af correct usage and assumptions is very evident in your diatribe against holding and deporting on our southern borders. We presumably are a country of laws, and entirely too lax about illegal immigrants. If the situation were reversed, how would the Mexican government respond ? We have seen news recently about the Mex authorities assisting and encouraging, the returned illegals to go back to the US. Those of us and many native born immigrant/citizens feel that not enough is being done to stop the destruction of our nation by illegals using our resources, and causing problems. Its time for the City,State, and federal authorities to force compliance with our laws, and penalize those who aid and abet the destruction of this once great nation which was founded on laws, be they illegals or our own authorities who willfully disobey our laws. I venture a guess youj are illegal or aiding and abetting them. WM-Redmond,Wa.,USA
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by AnonymousI atually know these "migrants". My son attended first and second grade at Plaencia Magnet in Los Angeles. While students from China , Japan. India, and Laos learned to read and write in English; the newly arrived Latinos made no effort. The (extrememly young )parents made no effort to learn English or to help the struggling school in any way. The families lived across the street in public housing. The children were given free breakfast, lunch, uniforms, school supplies and detal care. They did nothing to hide their illegal status. We stood it for two years and then chose to leave our careers and the madness that is California.In these hard times, can Americans really afford illegal immigration? Couldn't our economy benfit from the BILLIONS that are sent away to Mexico each year?
Would I not mind throwing
Submitted on April 30th, 2008 by PabloWould I not mind throwing Canadians into holding camps until they are deported.
You see your using improper ignorant language that is not even remotely correct. You are using language to try and drum up support to make it sound as if all those who are caught by ICE or law enforcement are victims of racial injustice.
Not True you liar!
To answer your question! Yes. I have absolutely no problem. In fact, it happens! geez you are thick to think that only those who cross the southern boarder are being detained.
There is several detention centers in the north. Two in New York, One In Michigan, two in Washington that I am aware of. So they are being held.
The difference is numbers. The number of illegals crossing from Canada is a fraction of those that cross the Mexican Border.
Now your in a pickle because ICE is deporting and detaining those from Canada and holding them in a known detetion centers. The reason why you do not hear much about it is because of the numbers are nothing like what is happening on the southern border. A few thousand verses several million. Yea right. Nice try!
Dehumanized
Submitted on April 30th, 2008 by Jrios"The truth is that is not where the people come from. There are many illegals that cross from Canada.
The issue is not race or national origin."
Hold on, are you telling me that you wouldn't mind throwing Canadians into concentration camps? How about Germans? Greeks??
I seem to remember a little Canadian boy who got thrown into one of these prisons. So much attention was drawn to the terrible conditions of the prison that it began to get alot of bad attention. America, correction, white America was up in arms over this one little Canadian boy who ended up next to all of the 'illegal aliens'. Hey! He was an 'illegal alien' wasn't he? Shouldn't he have stayed in the prison alongside all the others? Maybe if we were to hunt down his family, arrest, detain and deport them wouldn't that send a stronger message to the 'illegals'?
If it were not about race then America wouldn't have cared about the little white boy from Canada. Living proof of the dehumanization that has taken place.
Disposable Hispanic America
Legal or illegal, that is the question
Submitted on April 30th, 2008 by freddymLegal immigration and the larger social problem of 'illegal immigration'should be the topic in congress. Is it? To a few (less than 5).
Illegals in this nation are consuming billions of tax dollar revenue that should be spent in real problem areas.Most illegals have no interest in 'American assimilation'. Financial gain only.
Fixing Social Security(the founding concept included "private accounts" just like the Federal Retirement system uses today but did not make the cut in congress in 1935)? The fix is, no more band-aids, fix the problem permanently that does not use 'raise the tax'.
And yes, the politicans that do not exibit 'fix' solutions to SS, are greedy by using the SS fees collected from illegals. Does this sound like 'redistribution of wealth'?
By an illegal purchasing a SS number, through counterfeit/fraud-merchants, will open the door to a 'picture ID'. With an address and an employoeer this illegal may then apply to VOTE with significant success chance to vote for American politicians that give them social benifits, like welfare/medical.
Perhaps those congressional politicians that do not aggressively contain our borders really are silently supporting the "one North American Government".
Its not about Race or Dehumanizing
Submitted on April 29th, 2008 by PabloThe pure fact is that 4 of every 5 illegals are here for criminal enterprise.
That is a FBI and ICE statistic which can not be denied no matter how much the pro Alien you want to be.
The truth that 50% of all crime in America is done by Illegals is another statistic that can not be denied.
The fact that of all violent crimes, 70% are by Illegals. Another issue that can not be denied.
The fact that Illegals cause between 1.6 to 4.8 Trillion dollars of unpaid burden to the healthcare system can not be denied.
As I pointed out to Joel who thought that number was wrong had to back off when you simply run the numbers. 20 million illegals who cause on average 24K in unpaid medical per year. Most of which is through birth of babies which costs on average 43K per baby.
so 20Million times 24k = 4.8 Trillion.
Then you have to figure in the cost of Crime that these illegals do. Cost of having to jail them or hold them for deportation. All those camps are not like the Nazis.
The Nazis did not want those in their camps to leave. They wanted them dead.
Thus any suggestion that America is linked to Nazi concentration camps is highly inflamatory, ignorant and antiAmerican subversive.
America is simply returning those who broke our laws here in America to return to the country of their origin.
Since they are not citizens, that is exactly what we should do with the vast majority of illegals is kick them out of the country. Those whose crimes are so vile and so dispicable should be put in prison or put to death ( murder = death penalty)
The truth is that is not where the people come from. There are many illegals that cross from Canada.
The issue is not race or national origin.
The fact is that America can not support the poor of the world.
America currently allows some 1.1 Million a year from Central and South America to legally immigrate. How many of them fast track to final citizenship? about 1/3. Another 1/3 return home, and the rest just are extremely slow at becoming a citizen or does not try to be a citizen.
Its not about immigration. America by percentage allows more immigration than any other country in the world. But there has to be a set rate in which we allow immigration to proceed.
Otherwise you get what is happening right now. 3 to 10 trillion dollar problem caused by Illegals who for the most part do not want to be an American citizen or are interested only in criminal enterprise.
Since you can not tell the good from the bad on the surface, all has to go in order to be fair and unparcial.
For a Mexican to apply to immigrate to the US the average wait time is 3 years. Those who have criminal records for violent crime, are not allowed into the US at all. Which is why most of the illegals are criminals and do criminal acts in America.
So please stop saying that illegals are the victims. They are not victims.
They made the choice to be criminals here in America. Just as the Businesses like Country Pride and Hormel industries are criminals for Hiring Illegals when there are US citizens who want and can fill the jobs.
Thus I am tired of the lies about jobs.
There are plenty of Americans who are willing and wanting to work including doing gardening or yard work.
Is there shortages in the agriculture business? Yes but only in the seasonal market.
Basically, Americans want a steady job. But I know of a plan that was struck down three times that would have eliminated the problem of seasonal produce harvesting and actually cost the farmer 1/3 the cost he is paying now. But that is another topic within the ecconomy.
There is no Worker shortage in America. There is regional open jobs. Thus its time for those who are unemployed to move to where the jobs are and stop waiting for the Government to hand something to them on a silver plater.
RE: Illegal hugger
Submitted on April 29th, 2008 by Minuteman CABoo freakin' hoo. I don't care about the plight of illegals. I don't care if they die crossing the desert and I con't care if they get separated from thier families by I.C.E doing thier jobs.
I do care about citizens of this country. As a veteran myself, I fully agree that a person who joins the military and completes a contract with an Honorable discharge has more than earned thier citizenship. I have known people from many cultures who have joined the military and made America home. I would go to war with almost any of them at my side proudly.
Back on message, I don't agree with NAFTA, but I don't make excuses for people who don't contribute to this country. As "illegals", they are not citizens and are not granted the rights as such under the U.S. Constitution. End of Debate.
No Amnesty now. No amnesty ever. Stop the invasion. Join the minutemen.
"Illegal immigrant hugger"
Submitted on April 29th, 2008 by Jrios"Would one of you that supports illegal immigration or just think it's OK to allow illegal immigrants to remain here answer me this: Why should even one American citizen or LEGAL immigrant suffer a crime at the hands of an illegal alien??? These are crimes that are 100% preventable, yet they are allowed to occur and the destruction to citizens and legal immigrants is considered acceptable collateral damgage by those who favor illegal immigration."
O.k. maybe for the same reason you allow them to join the military and fight for a country that doesn't want them. I don't condone criminal activity on the part of anybody, but if you want to point fingers you tell me who was getting 15 year old girls pregnant at the polygomist colony? Were they 'illegals'? No, they looked exactly like your neighbors...isn't that scary. You can't single out good people from bad by the color of their skin, if you think you can go ahead and leave your windows open at night in your gated and segregated neighborhood.
I guess that would make me an "illegal alien hugger". Something that I am proud of...you on the other hand.
The problem is that people like 'anonymous' here get all of their information from people like Lou Dobbs and Bill Orielly, not second guessing their agendas, only taking what is told as God's honest truth. This is what I am up against, the media giants. I am no 'illegal alien' but I do understand their dilema. If you truelly want to place the blame on someone, try NAFTA, and guess who put that together. Nafta kicked open the doors of 'free trade', just a prettied up word for a corporate American free for all, not at all different from the land rushes of the early 1800's. Do you really think there is no relation between the introduction of Nafta and the immigration explosion? Do the research, before you blow a gasket, look up the year Nafta was initiated and compare it to when the 'illegals' started immigrating. Instead of blaming poor people who have never been in control or have ever had a say in anything for all of your problems look to our elected officials. Nafta KILLED local farmer's and rancher's way of life. Land and lifestyles were taken never to be returned. Mexicans found themselves out of work with 2 choices, work for nothing or go north. Now you are going to tell them to get the Hell out of here?
For every finger pointing there are 4 pointing right back.
Disposable Hispanic America
Illegal Aliens Go Home
Submitted on April 29th, 2008 by Anonymous"But most illegal immigrants are not criminals or gang members. Most came here to work to build a better life for themselves and their families."...the above is, of course, totally anecdotal.
Many illegal aliens also come to perpetuate their sexual assults and continue their crime sprees which they learned so adeptly in their third world enclaves. Many also come to access and partake of America's smorgasboard of benefits that were designed to aid CITIZENS in need. Many also come to drop anchor babies, free of expense to them of course, to aid and abet their illegal presence here.
They also like the fact that American schools provide a free educational ride, even in Spanish, to their illegal and anchor baby kids. Many also come to steal identities from Americans or create wholly new fraudulent ones to access jobs, credit lines, banking services, public and governmental services.
Liberals, bleeding hearts, anarchists and illegal aliens huggers twist themselves into knots spewing false propaganda that illegal aliens are a benefit to our country and economy. Study after study after study proves just the opposite. Let’s call a spade a spade…illegal aliens are a huge NET COST LOSS to America. Each and every one of them is an economic drain and burden on our country.
The sooner we build the fence, secure the border, restore lawful order and rationality to our immigration system and deport those who are here illegally, the better off America will be. Following the law, abiding by the law and supporting the law is “work” that illegal aliens just won’t do.
Two different groups have emerged in America today due to the effect of illegal immigration, those who have to obey the law (citizens) and those who don't (illegal aliens). Legalizing an illegal alien’s presence in America by rewarding their illegal behavior through amnesty is not the way to build a good system of law and order. It only invites more criminal activity and more avoidance of our laws.
We tried 'comprehensive immigration reform' in 1986. We gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens in exchange for the government promising to secure the borders, conduct workplace enforcement and enforce immigration law. It didn't work because the government lied and did nothing other than process the amnesty paperwork. Due to that folly, we now have 20 Million or more illegal aliens here demanding amnesty.
Don't you think it is far beyond time that we engage in Comprehensive Immigration ENFORCEMENT rather than Comprehensive Immigration Reform?
Would one of you that supports illegal immigration or just think it's OK to allow illegal immigrants to remain here answer me this: Why should even one American citizen or LEGAL immigrant suffer a crime at the hands of an illegal alien??? These are crimes that are 100% preventable, yet they are allowed to occur and the destruction to citizens and legal immigrants is considered acceptable collateral damgage by those who favor illegal immigration.
Tough crowd
Submitted on April 28th, 2008 by JriosLet me introduce myself properly, I am an American of Mexican descent...NOT Mexican American. I am proud to be called an American and I know well of my culture's sacrifices for my and your freedoms. Freedom isn't free and we trully are the home of the brave, but are we the land of the free? Look around, every day our freedoms are being restricted and taken away...right out from under us! What we are doing to these 'illegals' is what our government is going to do, eventually, to all of us. They are passing laws, detaining and arresting people based on citizenship yet these laws, which we know very little of, will be steered eventually in our direction.
I cannot combat big media on the issue of immigration but I can combat and debate folks on a minute scale...such as website forums. The reason I say this is becuase their are no, I repeat, NO talkshows out there that are in favor of illegal immigrants, showing them as human beings is out of the question as people are dehumanized and demonized as we speak. 600 detention camps are spread out throughout the U.S. reminiscent of Nazi Germany. When have we ever seen the likes?
I can tell you that your right about Mexico, they are not rich by "3rd world standards" they are rich by 1st world standars. They are among the world's top ten economies running a close 3rd place to Canada. You are right about the corruption down there, but are you going to tell me that we in the states don't have corruption? For example: drugs comming into the U.S., but isn't that all based on supply and demand? Who is demanding the supply? WE are, who's snorting, smoking and injecting that crap...WE Americans are! How can we as 'educated' sit back and point fingers when we're putting in the orders? Come on people...make some sense!
Disposable Hispanic America
Again I do respect your opinions.
Anonymous
Submitted on April 28th, 2008 by Anonymouswell maybe if they were legal they would have to pay taxes and they would have a better chance on getting jobs that other people wont take and dont act like there are actual legal citizens who are willing to work in gardens, trash, cleaning, fast foods, and much much more. I which the native americans had internet back in the days to post there concerns on random men taking there land or maybe on the trader Santa Ana who sold Mexico territory to "Americans" People need to stop the racism because thats what it is..and have a much open mind to issues like these.
I have seen up close and personal
Submitted on April 27th, 2008 by PabloThousand of illegals or should I say tens of thousands.
I have been in social services and with religious organizations which does the don't ask don't tell policy.
I have run an employment agency and took over for a time the State of Texas's Day Labor offices for West Texas which now no longer exists anywhere in Texas. I closed it!
I seen thousands of illegals and thousands of greencard holders ( card now blue) come through the office looking for work. I actually tracked for the State the unemployment rate among homeless since homeless make up the vast majority of Day labor work force.
I have seen thousands of false IDs and false SS cards and false Green Cards.
In one day, I had 20 illegals all who came in with the same ID number but different picture all having the same social security card that was obviously printed off of an inkjet printer and a green card that looked like something from outerspace. I called Imigration and all they asked me to do was mail them the copies I had of the IDs and they would investigate. This was in 1998 through 2000.
My point is I have seen the issue up front and very personal. The majority of the illegals do not have work. They go hunting and offer to work very cheap. Some say Will work for $30 a day. Thus some employers will take advanage and write it off as contract labor. Why pay a proper wage of $40 to $50 a day at minmum wage for 8 hours, when you can pay an illegal $30 for 12 hours. I have even seen the wage go as low as $20 a day. But generally the fresh illegals start off at arounf $30. They are undocumented, have no insurance, have no certifications and most do not read or speak English.
Thus you have these illegals causing accidents. The worst I know of was an Illegal who operated a crain. A job that normally pays $70 an hour. This illegal on his 2nd day on the job knocked over a high voltage line into a water main work pit killing5 workers. The illegal ran and left the city. The Employer was just fined $5,000 for hiring an uncertified worker and that was it. How much did that illegal and employer really cost. Caused 5 deaths and earning compacity of about 2 million dollars. raised the insurance rates of all businesses by 2 to 3% and caused 1.6 million in medical costs for the 3 who lived for a while then died from the injuries.
So yea I know exactly what is going on. You can ask several of people in the Border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and hear the same kind of things I am saying.
Its not about who is hispanic and who is not. Its not about immigration in a broad sense.
We are talking about People who are not trying to immigrate who are coming to America for the most part to do criminal enterprise or work for a few years and then return home. Of the fraction of those who do cross the border for hopes in immigration, that is rare.
America has a process of legal immigration that allows a large number of hispanics to come to America legally. The problem is not immigration.
The problem is the illegals who are here for crime and because of their status and because they did not do it legally, cause Trillions of dollars which plague our society driving healthcare in to bankruptcy and accounts for roughly more than half of all crime. Of that crime Illegals account for better than 70% of the most vile and most violent crimes we hear and read about every day.
That is the truth. Its not about race. Its about crime and who really is paying their way verses those who do not.
Before someone complains, Yea there are those extreme few that do pay taxes and are law abiding other than crossing the border illegally. But the truth is that 4 of every 5 are here for criminal intent mainly drug trafficing, prostitution, slavery, kidnapping and general trafficing of stolen goods, unsafe goods or tax revenue contrabans.
Most have criminal records in another country and are here to expand their criminal enterprise in a new era of organized crime but in tens of thousands of smaller little cells verses the Mofia families where a few controled all.
Disposable Hispanic America
Submitted on April 27th, 2008 by AnonymousI'm sorry about the suffering you have seen. But I have also seen the destruction of many hospitals used as doctor offices. The aliens who I am taking about make money, multiple families live in same home, send vast $ home to Mexico via Wells Fargo. They do not pay any of the medical charges they incur. The hospital has to write the bills off. Eventually they cannot survive, and close their doors. The illegal just drives further down the street to the next hospital and uses that facility until the same thing happens. When are you people going to hold Calderon responsible, and get the corruption in Mexico resolved, so you can live a prosperous life in Mexico. Mexico is rich, by third world standards. The problem is the governments corruption which deny's the dignity and prosperity of the Mexican people. Fix your country and stay home. You really love Mexico, and would not leave unless for more dinero. By abusing our services you are hurting us. And when our government cannot support care, and no longer provide services to Americans. What will you do then?
North American Union
Submitted on April 27th, 2008 by AnonymousThere is already one in the works. Bush formed it without approval of Congress and "We the People". It includes Canada and Mexico. Why do you think he doesn't really want to enforce the border? That would circumvent the alliance. To Hell with making sure no terrorist get in this country, or criminal aliens. It more important to get all that cheap labor. The Democrats if elected will keep the border wide open, deplete all our social services. Because these aliens Will take those benefits if we are stupid enough to give them. I know this is fact, several of my brother's employees talk to illegals about this subject, and that is their response to America dipping into its pockets and giving freebies. They laugh about it. My brother checks all his employees in the government database. If they are not legal, they are told to hit the road. They go down the street to a competitor, who checks jack sh.. and they get a job. This employer often out bids and gets the next job. Many Contractors are greedy and will close their eyes to hiring illegals. Now they are subcontracting. They hire a legal Mexican who has the title of subcontractor. He hires a crew of illegals. When the job is done the employer pays only the subcontractor who distributes the money between all the crew. That how the employer gets around the new identity verification procedures the government has online now. They are making fools of the Federal Government, and cheating all of us by not paying taxes. The only taxes they pay are on food, clothing, utilities nothing else. We are picking up the tab. And by law we treat them in our Hospital ER's, and educate their children. So what do they have to lose. American is so gullible, if we give they'll take. If we say NO MAS, they will go home!
Free money balogne
Submitted on April 27th, 2008 by JriosWhy is it that people who know not one single 'illegal alien', know so much of them? Has anyone here sat down and spoken with one, eaten with, or worked with an 'illegal alien'?
Do you know of their suffering, or their sacrifice to just be here? If not, how can you 'know' anything of them?
Let me tell you of what I know:
I have worked with them in the hot, smoldering fields of south Texas. My father would take me and my brothers out to work these cotton fields. We call it 'el asadon', (hoe). We'd work from sun up to sun down alongside these 'illegal aliens' chopping cotton, as it's known in English. You know the funny part? During short breaks or lunch, these 'illegals' would sit there under the shade and look over wondering if we had anything to drink or eat. At some points we'd have our supplies on the other side of the field and guess what? They'd offer us a taco and some water! I mean these folks had nothing, were working for 20 bucks a day and were offering me and my bros whatever they had! What do you know about that??
Your talking about people who refuse to go to the hospital for any reason, much less apply for some governmentgrant! No sir, you all have it completely wrong...you have to know the people and their nature to know what you are talking about. Just becuase there are programs out there for them does not mean that they are being used.
Why don't we talk about the BILLIONS of dollars that are left in surplus in out social security system that are gathered from these 'illegals' using dead folks SS#'s!
I do not condone this, but hey where is all that money going?? Who are the real crooks? How can we place all the blame on poor, ignorant people who have NEVER been in control of anything? Come on!! Make some sense.
This makes me wonder...are you referring to American Hispanic statistics when referring to 'illegals'? Are you getting your info from a lopsided site that jumbles people together with no regard to honest folks?
Disposable Hispanic America
NO to amnesty (comprehensive immigration reform)
Submitted on April 24th, 2008 by zeezilFirst, let us remember the "illegal" part of being an illegal immigrant. Most Americans don't seem to have problems with legal immigration, however it only seems fair to question the value of any additions to our country who already show no regard for it's laws upon arrival.
Second, it seems far too easily forgotten that one must be an U.S. citizen in order to warrant the rights afforded to a citizen. That should be the end of discussion.
Third, legal immigrants working alongside native born citizens have made this country what it is. We have thrived on the contributions of immigrants and will usually need them, though to varying degrees, throughout most sectors of our economy. The problem is that we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to those who enter illegally, ignore our laws and seek to subvert our culture and national values.
We welcome those who follow the rules, learn the English language, and respect our sovereignty. As illegal immigrants, it is not only offensive but also ridiculous to ask for rights, which they have not earned nor are even entitled to.
Let's secure our borders by building the fence so we have an effective and controlled immigration system at the same time as we enforce our currently existing immigration laws. During this interval we encourage illegals to depart (attrition through enforcement). Once our borders are secured and we have a grip on a functional system of immigration, we move against those illegals that have refused to leave. We should never ever grant amnesty.
We tried 'comprehensive immigration reform' in 1986. We gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens in exchange for the government promising to secure the borders, conduct workplace enforcement and enforce immigration law. It didn't work because the government lied and did nothing other than process the amnesty paperwork. Due to that folly, we now have 20 Million or more illegal aliens here demanding amnesty. Don't you think it is far beyond time that we engage in Comprehensive Immigration ENFORCEMENT rather than Comprehensive Immigration Reform?
For Joel
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by PabloIts really simply math.
Take 20 million multiply that by 24k
and what is the answer?
It is 4.8 Trillion.
Take 12 million and multiply that by 24k and that is?
2.88 Trillon.
So the real number as defined by the facts of which number you want to use.
Either there is 12 million illegals or 20 million and then multiply that by the cost that the average illegal sticks the healthcare system in the US.
which is 24k per year from the study I used.
If you want to use the 2000 numbers it would be 14k.
Thus then the numbers would change to
1.68 Trillion for 12 million and 2.8 Trillion for 20 million.
When you really run the actual numbers you can see the realities.
Yea the US ecconomy is 14 Trillion. But we have healthcare bankruptcies happening at an epidemic rate.
So the realities is that the US ecconomy should be closer to 20 Trillion if the illegals were not here and causing the shortfall.
Its just simply math.
Simple Math
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by Anonymous"The analysis found that over the next decade, newly legalized immigrants and guest workers would generate $48 billion in additional tax and Social Security revenues, while using about $23 billion worth of tax credits and social services. Thus, the newly legal immigrant population would contribute a net of about $26 billion over the decade, the report said."
Seems like the majority didn't read or believe this part of the report.
Cost????
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by AnonymousIt's just simple math. According to census data, the average immigrant family (legal and illegal, alike)is made up of 2 adults and 3 children. In California, they have and annual income of just over $37K/yr.
According to the Los Angeles Unified School District, it costs $9811/yr/student, to educate those children.
this is just a no-brainer..
12 million ???
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by AnonymousThat's the number the open border crowd is willing to accept. According to the Pew Institute, the number is closer to 20 million. Hell, there's 6-8 million in California, alone.
Do you mean an Eisenhower style Operation Wetback?
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by Bull MooseIf you think the public will allow an operation to remove illegals as Eisenhower did (and also Woodrow Wilson did during Pancho Villa's rambling), you are dreaming.
Too many corporations and small Taco Bell franchise owners will fight it tooth and nail.
When an organized system is set up at border entries to arrange workers to be sent to farms and companies that need temporary workers,and that system is not corrupted, we can start to satisfy the need for temporary help, and the cost of the healthcare and childcare this will entail.
Both Mexico and the U.S. could benefit if this all can be worked out, but with the nature of corruption inate in mankind, i doubt it will come to fruition.
Mexico is not poor, it's corrupt
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by AnonymousTruth be told Mexico is not a poor country (it currently is in the top tier of world economies and by 2050 will be the world's fifth-largest economy), it's a corrupt country! There's a difference. Mexicans do not live in horrible poverty. People in Nigeria, Bangladesh and Vietnam live in horrible poverty. If our goal were to offer an opportunity for a better life to people living in abject poverty, Mexico would not even be on the list of countries we would look at. IF after providing all available American workers with a job that pays a decent, living wage we still need workers for agriculture or such, why not bring in people from other countries who truly do need a helping hand? People who could not possibly pay a coyote thousands of dollars to smuggle them into the US? People who would appreciate an opportunity to work in the US on a temporary work visa and go home with a tidy nest egg? People from countries who have not fleeced the taxpayers of the US. Countries whose leaders have not meddled in our immigration affairs with the intention of subverting our legal immigration system. Slam the door shut on Mexico and lock it. The world is awash in unskilled labor. We can get any workers we need from other countries. We don't need the people from south of the border. Let's lend a hand to people who will respect our laws and not burn our flag in the streets.
There are plenty of jobs in Mexico. Unfortunately, there are higher paying jobs here and we just happen to share a border with Mexico so Mexican leaders backed by their rich elitists ship their uneducated and poor to us to employ and take care of. Truth is, Mexicans realize that the jobs in Mexico pay significantly less with little benefits (thanks to their corrupt and oppressive government) than in the U.S. Why labor in Mexico at the wages being offered because they can make 10 times as much in this country. Why sweep a floor in Mexico for $7 dollars a day when you can come here illegally and make $7 an hour sweeping the same floor. Further, our generous social systems will actually pay you to have babies and give those babies citizenship, thereby providing an anchor to your presence. So on top of your $7 under the table wage, you can get an anchor baby, food stamps, housing subsidies, access to no cost medical care, education, and a bevy of activist support groups and immigration lawyers that will help you stay here.
It's as if they have hit the lottery and you can bet these people will never go back to Mexico so long as they have the economic incentive and a host of facilitators and advocates that aid and abet their presence to remain here in this country.
Re: Data may be off
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by JoelSo the U.S. gross domestic product is just under $14 trillion.
You're suggesting that spending on health care for illegal aliens amounts to one-seventh of the entire U.S. economy?
I'm going to go ahead and call myself very skeptical of that.
Data may be off
Submitted on April 23rd, 2008 by PabloI read a three year study from California, Arizona and Texas which points to a short fall just in healthcare costs alone to the tune of 1.9 Trillion Dollars a year.
They point to LA county in California who had a short fall in 2006 from illegals to the tune of $2,214,000. That was just one county in California.
Here in Texas and in my county the short fall do to illegals is $830,000. I live in a rual area so the hit is dramatic. We have had 4 hospitals close in the last 5 years and approximately 90% of public clinics are closed. There is currently only two functioning. One is run as a city/County clinic and the other is run as a religous charity because it would close if it was not treated in that manner.
The wait to get an appointment is 4 months. Otherwise go to the ER or to a private practice doctor.
The problem is a trillion dollar issue. The Washington post and the world net daily both in this month April 6th and 7th respectively gave the governments acknowledged short fall to the general tax payer as 2.2 trillion dollars for 12 million Illegals. for the 20 million its 3.8 trillion dollars and represents near $24,000 per person per year which the illegals leave to bankrupt healthcare.
These numbers are just for healthcare. Then you have the cost of crime, identity theft, loss of general and social sevices which adds another 1.5 to 2 trillion dollars to the burden that illegals cause.
Its possible to remove the illegals. Its just not going to be popular to do it in some parts of the country. Its a matter of who is in charge to make it happen. Right now no one is willing to stand up and make it happen.
No one wants to do what is necessary. Everyone is afraid that they will look like a racist or look like they are attacking the poor. But eventually it will have to be done or all of America will be so impoverished that the illegals will be rich or on par with the majority of common America.
The HUGE Burden of Illegal Immigration to American citizens
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by zeezilThe Congressional Budget Office in December 2007 (CBO: The Impact of Unauthorized Immigrants on the Budgets of State and Local Governments) stated the tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants. Illegal immigrants are a NET COST LOSS and a burden to the budgets of all states. This cost is largely borne by the states and citizen taxpayers. Federal payments allocated by Washington fall far short in reimbursing state and local government expenditures.
The annual cost for uncompensated emergency care to Mexican Border States (California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas) is $200 million. California taxpayers paid $79 million for illegal alien health care. Texas paid $74 million. –Tom DeWeese, President of American Policy Center.
The average annual cost per child for education is $7,161, totaling $109 billion to educate illegal aliens annually. The average cost of bilingual education is $1,200 per illegal student. U.S. schools annually educate 1.1 million illegal children. -Tom DeWeese, President of American Policy Center.
A major cost factor in the conduct of school operations relates to the vast number of children of illegal immigrants in our classroom and the special-training dictates for many of those students being taught in their native language — some 82 languages in San Diego County, 112 languages in Los Angeles County. – North County Times, March 2008. In New York City alone, more than 200 languages are spoken in the public schools. –NYU Steinhardt School of Culture, Education and Human Development.
$108.2 million is spent each year by U.S. border counties in the four state region to pay for law enforcement, criminal justice and emergency healthcare services to illegal immigrants, states a February 2008 report from the United States/Mexico Border Counties Coalition (USMBCC). Current federal reimbursement returns only 11.5 cents on the dollar to counties for handling criminal illegal immigrant services.
From 1999 through 2006, the 24 counties along the U.S.-Mexico border spent a cumulative $1.23 billion on services to process criminal undocumented immigrants through the law enforcement and criminal justice system. In fiscal year 2006 alone, the cost was $192 million. Yet, the federal government has only reimbursed these 24 counties $4.7 million for detaining criminal undocumented immigrants for fiscal year 2006 (and $54.8 million since 1999). These are staggering costs considering the rural nature and poverty level of most of these border counties. The costs to process undocumented immigrants come at the expense of basic, vital services to county residents. (Undocumented Immigrants in U.S. Border Counties: The Costs of Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Services; U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition February 2008)
The average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this amounted to a $10.4 billion drain on the federal budget. Some of the greatest federal costs included: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion). According to the CIS report, since most of the illegal aliens currently in the workforce do not have a high school diploma, they only qualify for low paying jobs. That translates into low federal tax payments. Should illegal aliens ever receive an amnesty, it is estimated that net deficit costs would triple to $7,700 per household due to eligibility to all federal, state and local services. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalr...
Furthermore; nationwide, 40% of households headed by an illegal alien receive welfare benefits and 56% have no health insurance. Standard & Poor’s reports that education of illegal alien children costs the states and federal government $11 billion dollars per year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hduG9Dw0o...
Heritage Foundation research shows in FY 2004, at the state and local level, the average low skill immigrant household received $14,145 in benefits and services and paid only $5,309 in taxes (those that actually paid taxes). The average low skill immigrant households imposed a net fiscal burden on state and local government of $8,836 per year. That is approximately $9000 for EACH immigrant household of which at least 50% are illegal aliens.
In California, each illegal immigrant will take $50,000 in services from the state beyond what he will contribute in taxes during his lifetime. -The Immigration Solution; Manhattan Institute, 2007
Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation calculates that each immigrant who is a high school dropout, as most Mexican immigrants are, will end up costing taxpayers $85,000 over his lifetime.
A report in April 2008 by economist Edwin Rubenstein titled the FISCAL COST OF IMMIGRATION, indicated:
- The impact on 15 Federal Departments surveyed was: $346 billion in fiscal related costs in FY 2007.
- Each immigrant cost taxpayers more than $9,000 per year.
- An immigrant household, consisting of two adults and two children, cost taxpayers $36,000 per year.
Legal immigrants were not separated out from illegal immigrants for the fiscal impact study, but if they had been, the fiscal cost per ILLEGAL immigrant would be even more shocking than the figures quoted above.
Taxpayers in our country pay more than $100 billion every year on health care and other services for illegal immigrants, including education, law enforcement costs, and housing. – Congressman Dean Heller-Jan. 2008 http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/2008...
A Harvard University study released in January 2008 found that illegal aliens depressed wages in Arizona by $1.4 billion dollars. Hardest hit were low skilled legal workers whose wages fell by 5%. Wage suppression of American workers is a consistent effect throughout the country due to the employment of illegal aliens. http://www.azcentral.com/business/articl...
40% of the decline in employment of black men is due to immigration. Foreign workers are taking American's jobs and depressing wages. And while Americans from all backgrounds are being harmed, lower to middle income African American workers are being disproportionately affected. –Dr. Frank Morris, former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation; February 2008.
The World Bank reports (Worldwide Remittance Flow to Developing Nations Report) for 2006, $68.1 billion dollars were sent by migrant workers (more than 50% illegal aliens) mostly from the U.S. to Latin America. Mexico received 24.4 billion, South America 24.4 billion, Central America 11 billion and the Caribbean 8.4 billion. This is a direct transfer of a huge portion of our economy to the third world; largely by a group of people (illegal aliens) who are not even authorized to work in our country much less have an established presence here.
The U.S. government estimates that since 2003, Mexican drug trafficking organizations have repatriated $22 billion to Mexico from the U.S., which is 20% of all money sent to Mexico from it’s citizens residing, legally and illegally here during this interval. Drug money remittances have accelerated since 2002 when the U.S. government allowed banks to accept the Mexican Matricula Consular ID card. This has enabled these crime groups to engage in money laundering. (U.S. State Department report; March 2008)
Questions you should be asking include "Why is even $1 of taxpayer money being consumed providing services and paying for the huge cost burden of illegal aliens in every state of America? Why are we allowing business and corporations to import cheap foreign labor (both legal and illegal) to drive down wages and put Americans out of work? Why are we importing a foreign workforce that transfers a significant amount of money from our economy to foreign nations?"