redblueamerica.com

I guess people just do not get it.

Iraq was a threat back in 2002 because Saddam threatened to give WMD to Al Queda or any terrorist group like Hamas.

Ideologically Saddam was more in line with Al Queda than people realize. But Saddam could never share power with them.

Thus the threat had to be addressed.

Al Queda came to Iraq to make it a focus standing point. More or less idential to the old Afganistan Mujahadeen. OBL himself said that Iraq was the battle ground and the place where Al Queda would stand or fall.

He also said that America was a Paper tiger that American has no staying power. OBL was right! Based on past events and conflicts from vietnam to other middle east conflicts like the first Persian Gulf War.

Does that suprise anyone. It should not. The Islamic mind in the middle east sees conflict as black and white. You either conquer completely or you win by default of the other being weak.

Look at the examples which formed this mentality. Massive oppression for centuries where any precieved enemy is brutally put down.

The persian gulf war was seen by many in the middle east as weakness of the US of not wanting to really get its hands dirty and really having to fight a ground war. Which is absolutely true.

So why have we not caught OBL? He is in Pakistan and Rumsfeld screwed the pooch and let he go when we had him dead to rights. We knew where he was. But Rumsfeld refused to send 15,000 more troops to Afganistan to kill OBL. He decied to use untrained local warlords who had dual loyalties and could be bribed and bought for a few thousand dollars.

In other words, We lost OBL over $50,000 that he paid a local warlord to let him escape. All because of Rumsfeld and the commander on the ground tried to fight a conflict with too little troops.

Now OBL is a massive hero, rock star and god rolled into one in the northwestern region of Pakistan. They love him and protect him. The pakistani government has no police or army in the region where he is. America just can not justify a full scale invasion of that region of Pakistan because the US would have to kill a significan portion of those Pakistani civilians who are in reality militias who have sworn to protect OBL.

We know generally where OBL is. But not down to the town or house level. But we know one thing. He has made it the main goal and put Al Queda's ideology and standing of acceptance as God's soldiers on the outcome of Iraq.

We may never catch him right now, but if he is proven a liar and defeated when he says God would not allow it to happen will cause a few of his followers to turn him in for the reward when we win in Iraq.

But if we pull out exactly like OBL says will will, then all America has done is proven that OBL is right and Al Queda will grow beyond anything that any government could hope to control. America will look like Israel with all the bombs going off and we will see nothing but death and destruction of anything American around the world.

That is the realities.

As far as having troops here and there in the world. Its a smart and national security must. Its always been better to fight conflicts elsewhere than here in America.

Those who promote isolationism in hopes for safety and security find none. America already tried that path twice and paid dearly both times. First was for much of WWI but eventually had to join to protect American lives on the high seas and abroad.
The second time was WWII.

Its time people get their head out of the sand and understand that the problems that America has with respect goes back decades and is not related to the current President although GWB has added to the overall problem with many blunders.

But America has to finish what it starts or there will never be respect or security in the future.

The question people make concerning the issue of Iraq is one which people should take seriously.

How many years has America been in Germany, Japan, Korea, Saudi Arabia, UAE just to name a few?

So why is the idea that having to be in Iraq for decades to centuries seem far fetched or improper?

America will be in Germany until 2100. That is when the next lease time will be looked at by the Allies. Meaning Britan, France, America and Russia.

The Saudia Arabian issue has America as a force until 2040. UAE just signed an agreement with the US until 2100.

Korea is open ended as is a case of a War still in place. The cease fire holding for 55 years. But the fact remains that Korea is the only country that is truly opened ended in all of the countries listed and is even more open ended than Iraq.

Thus anyone who even suggests that America is open ended with Iraq or ignores the ramifications of withdrawl of Iraq without taking into account the main factors of what is happening is a moron and irresponsible and down right dangerous to America. That includes Clinton and Obama.

The problem with Clinton and Obama and those who support the pull out of Iraq are truly ignorant and goes well beyond the pale. Not ignorant as to be plain stupid. But ignorant as to being a blundering blind person who walks around in the dark with a lit match in a gunpowder factory.

The reasons given by the those who are for a pull out in Iraq is based on reasons for the invasion of Iraq as we know the truth today.

This is more moronic than I can even hope to convey. Its so blind and short sighted and plain irresponsibly dangerous is just a starting point.

Clinton and Obama are so focused about the how America got there that they have over looked what is the most important most responsible position of decision that needs to be done.

What is the realities of Iraq today not what was the realities as seen by 20/20 hindsight back in 2002.

Thus Clinton and Obama are living as if the War in Iraq is stuck in 2002 and the facts that brought America to Iraq are still the exact same ones as they were in 2002.

That is why they Both Clinton and Obama and anyone else who follows after that thought are short sighted blind and ignorant.

They all have refused to account for what happened in Iraq and what has changed in Iraq since 2002.

Although they are right about so few things. One is correct that Rumsfeld and the first commander on the ground in Iraq screwed up royally. Because they screwed up badly and the fact that Pres Bush did not correct those screw ups in a timely manner, the realities of Iraq changed fundamentally.

Now Iraq is unstable not because of general violence but because America did not step in and confront sectarian issues not once, twice or even three time.

The problems in Iraq go back into the First Bush presidency as in Bush Sr. It also goes to events that happened durning the Clinton years and has been magnified under the current GWB.

Now is the time for America to belly up and have to pay the piper for all those decades of screw ups by three presidents.

Now Al Queda is in Iraq, Sectarian violence and radical militias are lose to the point that they do not respect America because America let them down several times over several decades.

Its the reason why Osama Bin Laden says America is a Paper Tiger and will pull out of Iraq because they have no will power and can not defeat Al Queda.

Its why Iran is so determined to push the issue as far as they can because they also believe that America is not interested in long term stability but short term show of power like a childish tantrum.

America simply has to put up and rather than shut up because America has shown over the last 45 years that it has no staying power and will abandon what it calls as important ideological values. This is why America is not respected around the world and is seen the way it does.

America is seen as a bully who wants things now but will not when confronted stay and fight the fight even when that fight is a fight for its own survival.

This is why you have Countries like Iran, Al Queda, Russia, North Korea Venezuela, Nigeria, Brazil, Mexico, France and China who are working as hard as they can to bring down America.

America has lost respect. America went to Iraq and told the world that America will help Iraq until it achieve the goal of a Free Iraq that can defend its self as a functioning democracy.

If America pulls out because, a politician is pandering to a section of America that is more Socialist isolationist then in the end, America will because like all great empires of times past. Will fall shortly after the next barbarian invasion.

Al Queda will take down America if America pulls out of Iraq. But America can take down Al Queda if America stays the course.

Its really that simple. Its just too bad that the left wingers are too blind or too thick to get it.

America has been given a few passes in the past. The world just will not give America another pass with Iraq.
Thus America has to belly up and finish what it started or cease to be a country in the world. Because so much is at stake on the out come of Iraq.

Dozens of countries around the world are watching to see if America will be as it used to be in the days 1940s through the early 1980s.

America when confronting a dangerous enemy must stay the course. Thus why Regan is respected and why Russia collapsed and why America is the only superpower.

But for the last 3 presidencies have squandered the gains and the opportunities to have America be completely peaceful and most respected in the world.

Lets break this down so that the most simple in the world can understand.

John Kerry the Democratic candidate in the previous election lost on the same position that both Obama and Clinton are taking.

Why? Because the decision made in 2002 based on the information in 2002 was the right choice. Of the 178 counties in the UN, 112 agreed with the US. 46 countries in 2002 joined in some fashion to address the threat.

What was the threat that made most of the world nervous and join to remove Saddom? Saddom said he would give his WMD to terrorist and also use WMD against his neighbors and against all countries that were against him.

In 2002, there was no evidence to contridict it. The report issued Last year, gives that Saddom lied and created paperwork to make it look like he had WMD when he did not.

As I said previously, HIndsight is 20/20 and for morons. What if it was true and America did nothing. Then what?

So its a catch 22. America has to act to protect its self in the world we currently live in. the Oceans no longer provide a barrier and America is extremely open to any and every kind of attack.

Thus its irresponsible to deny the truth and I will openly call Obama a liar along with Clinton and anyone else who says America went to war in Iraq for oil.

After September 11, 2001, Anyone who would suggest that Terrorist is not trying to destroy America is a fool, a liar and everything dispicable.

So why is America in Iraq? It was to prevent WMD from getting into the hands of Terrorist.

We currently know that was not true but it took 5 years to uncover the real truth especially when A crazy mad man was to creator of those lies and went out of his way to threaten with those lies.

Now that we are in Iraq, what has changed? Al Queda has said that Iraq is the main battle ground agaist their forces and the west. That Al Queda will either win or fall with Iraq.

So We are now in a struggle against terrorism. Both sunni and shiite terrorist are focusing on Iraq. Each hoping for their own outcome each working for a time with their enemy. For those who do not get it. Its called "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" attitude.

They will work together at times like they did in Najaf as well as they have done in Basera currently.

I guess Obama and Clinton ignored the pentigon briefs and known current facts.

So Iraq is a two things to America. Its security against Terrorism should we face them and defeat them. Seocondly its global respect because America stood firm and finished what it started.

The last poster sure has a big problem with anonymous commenters, too bad he/she remained anonymous themselves.

For the information of those not accustomed with the deployment of US troops, their are combat deployments and general US allied deployments. Germany, Japan and South Korea are all ALLIED deployments, with each of these countries governments welcoming US troops.

With that said, there would be no treaty with an enemy, just the government. Which government in Iraq? The one the people voted for with a larger turnout than our own elections here in the US. The people in the north, south and west despite all belief are working together about as much (maybe a little more) than our own congress is.

As for the belief that we are only in Germany, Korea and Japan because they were our enemies and had to sign concessions, you are sorely mistaken. After WWII, our treaty with Japan forced them to turn to us for protection (since we made it illegal to have an army) but Korea and West Germany were key allies in the Cold War. Even today, any of those countries can have us leave whenever they desire, and we have closed unnecessary bases within those countries with their objections (US bases create income and stimulate local economies).

Perhaps to dullards who ramble on with a sophomoric post designed to feign intelligence.

If we do not learn from the past, we are destined to repeat it, according to Santayanna, correct?

So why didn't we learn from past conflicts that bog down into a protracted, amorphous form of combat that has consistently shown the fact that 20th century warfare tactics are ill-suited?

Instead of the surgical skills of Special Operations, we bludgeon with Neanderthal-like glee with conventional warcraft.

And, according to Shakespeare, nothing would be more surgical than a pen. Human intellect in the form of diplomacy--not carroting and sticking because our war toys are bigger. That's childish and way too easy. The harder feat to accomplish is peace.

Try it.

McCain added detail an explanation to his remarks during interviews fron Jan/ Feb of this year.

Golberg, just because a strategy has not been articulated (to the public)doesn't mean it doesn't exist. His vision for limited involvement coupled with reduced violence seems appropriate. It is politically and militarily unwise to telegraph future strategic moves.

"...creating a large permanent troop presence in Iraq ..." Islamic Fundamentalist hate Americans for who we are, not where we are. Our way of life is considering a corrupting influence to their beliefs. So, I cannot agree with your conclusion.

In my estimation Anonymous, your post is dead-on, only drawback is no name attached to post.

As to the McCain 100 year Iraq comment, this can be spun any way you want. American citizens will figure out the true intention of the 100 year comment, and when they do, the vast majority will regard it as just another fruitless attempt to discredit Senator McCain.

I'm leery when I read accusations without foundation (Michelle Obama an "Anti-American racist", chief28.ret? Proof?). I'm also leery when I read illogical parallels.

If you are comparing Iraq to Korea, where, exactly, would you create your DMZ, please?

If you are comparing Iraq to Japan, where, exactly, would you start disarming the populace, and reduce their army to a mere "Defense Force"?

Wow, I respect Senator McCain. If it wasn't for his sacrifice, I wouldn't have been able to serve 10 years active Army Infantry and Special Operations. But what I refuse to respect is using a WWII mentality in a 21st Century setting. The United States lacks the resolve and dedication to occupy an area of operations as dicey as Iraq. Oh, and nevermind the ops we're conducting in the Horn of Africa.

We are the greatest country on Earth, and our largest export is violence? Wouldn't you agree there's something wrong with that, now?

Iraq is not Korea. Iraq is not Japan. Iraq is wrong.