John Stagliano at the Adult Video News Expo.
Should the feds be prosecuting obscenity cases?
Pornography may be mainstream in America, but obscenity is still illegal. The libertarian Reason Foundation and several pro-pornography and First Amendment groups held a press conference today defending pornographer and Las Vegas show producer John Stagliano, who is facing eight counts of trafficking in obscenity. The press event coincided with Stagliano's arraignment in federal court.
"The charges are real, and something bad could happen," said Stagliano, who owns Evil Angel and is known in the porn business as "Buttman." "But I look at the world with wonder and amusement, especially when it comes to the government. I am hoping this will result in a bump in sales for the films. It is all films I distribute and not a single one I directed. I wish my 'Fashionistas' had been chosen. The films are hard, but I have real artistic ambition. I wonder how closely they watched? I am surprised the government, with the war and the economy, has time for this."
If convicted, Stagliano faces up to five years in prison and $500,000 in fines for each count.
In the midst of a war in which terrorists are quite possibly plotting to attack U.S. soil again, is it wise for the federal government to divert limited resources toward prosecuting smut peddlers? Or is defending public morality a proper role of government? And with so much pornography available on the Internet, what effect do such prosecutions have? Is the indictment more symbol than substance?















Thoughts
Tolerance
Submitted on April 22nd, 2008 by AnonymousThe price you pay for a truly free country (not that we have that, sadly) is tolerance. You have to tolerate stuff you don't necessarily like yourself, otherwise what's the point of proclaiming freedom for just those that share your view. And the whole "pornography destroys homes" is a tired argument, written by the various "family" organizations that want to strip adults from having the power to choose what they do, under the guise of protecting children. The government should go about prosecuting CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, everyone in this country practically agrees on that. But do you honestly think that watching two consenting adults having sex, in the privacy of your own home, is somehow a crime that someone should go to prison for? Are you kidding me? And know that these same people that call hardcore porn obscene, also got Maxim pulled from Wal Mart, and I'm sure they believe that Teletubbies were pushing a gay agenda. So go right ahead...side up to that crowd, and see what kind of world you end up with. Say goodbye to anything that contans sex, violence, profanity or dissent, because you'll be living in a world with no freedoms and no liberty, and you'll have absolutely no one to blame but your damn self.
The People Have Spoken
Submitted on April 22nd, 2008 by JobbaBoyWhile not a staunch believer in the free market, I think that this is one case where Americans have voted with their dollars.
The Adult industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, supported by millions of Americans. I have yet to see any kind of report that links pornography to any social ills (unless you consider pornography to be, in and of itself, a social ill, which I don't), whether it be sexual assault, high divorce rates, bankruptcy or just tired arms.
While there should certainly be measures in place to ensure that illicit materials don't reach the hands of children, I see no reason whatsoever why consenting adults should not be able to make pornographic material and distribute it to other consenting adults.
98% of humans or more have
Submitted on April 22nd, 2008 by wishnevsky98% of humans or more have sexual organs, and most of these people either indulge in, or want to indulge in sex. So let's make most references to the prime preoccupation of humanity taboo. What a great money making idea!
I suppose if you took a picture of your own hand on your own genitals, that would be an obscenity, right?
Anybody outside of me think that's a little stupid?
The thing about porn, strip clubs and so on, is that they are so sad and pathetic. People, men, are so hung up on the idea of perfection in sexual partners, that they will spend hours and lots of dollars viewing but never touching these unattainable paragons of beauty, they they will never even talk to an amiable if heavy-set genuine female next door.
Sad, but typical.
And i suppose that the observation that legalized prostitution might help the "issue" would be evil and un-American.
One can only hope for the perfection of the sex robot, or else for sanity to set in. It is noticeable that Non-Monotheistic countries, AKA the majority of the world, do not see any problem with commercial sex in any guise.
A much older definition of obscenity
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by BenWell, obscenity is confusing because the courts have hopelessly confused it. There might be something to be said for an older definition of obscenity, which historian Rochelle Gurstein discusses at length in her 1996 book, The Repeal of Reticence. Obscenity exposes to the public what is and should be private.
"While the democratization of culture, sexual emanancipation, and the triumph of the avant-garde are usually presented as signs of progress... that story is only a partial one," Gurstein writes. "For there have been unexpected consequences of those victories. One of the most suprising and devastating is the way that intimacy -- which, for moderns is supposed to provide the deepest meanings -- has been stripped of the privacy it needs in order to flourish."
If that's too prude for you, I love how H.L. Mencken defined the limits of public expression in 1916. Mencken, as avid a crusader for free speech as this country has ever known, had strongly discouraged Theodore Dreiser from staging his play, "The Hand of the Potter." The protagonist of Dreiser's four-act tragedy rapes and murders a child, then commits suicide.
Mencken wrote:
(From The Dreiser-Mencken Letters, vol. 1, pp. 281-282, edited by Thomas P. Riggio)
Suffice to say, I agree. But the "overwhelming weight of opinion" has gone the other way. And clearly we're well beyond the point of no return.
Miller Test
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by chief28.retJoel, I agree with you that it is a mess. I guess the problem I have is that in my mind, the obvious is just that, obvious. The "I'll know it when i see it" argument has validity if you have your Grandmother in the room and are asked the question. By this I mean that most law abiding people with any amount of common decency know what porn looks like. It is those who choose to ignore the law, press the limits, and more importantly, exploit to make money that irritates the heck out of me.
The "problem" is as out of control as illegal drugs and as hard to stop. Porn, like drugs, is addicting, and no less harmful.
I have personally seen the effects of pornographic addiction, my wife works with sexual assault victims every day, and I understand the vagueness of the law...but in my opinion, it does not mean we sit back and do nothing. It goes to the "starfish" analogy. It matters to the one you throw back in the ocean...and prosecuting those that a court of law determines to be guilty of such crimes will make a difference to them too.
Re: Obscenity
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by JoelChief is right that obscenity is still illegal in America. However, if you can look at two pictures of nekkid growups doing naughty things and tell me which one is legally "obscene" and which one merely "indecent" -- and you can't file charges on indecency -- well, I'll give you a cigar.
Ben and I spent a little time talking about this today, and we ended up possibly more confused than when we started the conversation. Why?
Because here is the so-called "Miller" test created by the Supreme Court to determine the standard for obscene material:
# Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
# Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions [2] specifically defined by applicable state law,
# Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
This is all very much "eye of the beholder" stuff -- or, more famously, "I know it when I see it" territory. How you bring charges, then, is beyond me -- unless, of course, you're a federal prosecutor (or Justice Department) more interested in racking up political points than easy convictions. It's a mess.
feds
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by GolfferdieFerdy, from Jensen Beach ,FL.
Yeh the dont have enoughf to do. This should be handeled at local levels. Laws are in place for this No? The judges should spend more time thowing out stupid cases and fine the lawyers for wasting time!!!!!!!
Porn
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by rrdj71I am SO SICK AND TIRED of pornography and
of HOW MANY homes it is destroying!! It has caused massive amounts of divorce, bankruptcy,addictions and SO many more problems. If people REALLY need it then maybe they should at least try to keep it outside of the home. Not that the word NEED really fits there it's more of a want either way you get the picture.
two quick things
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by chief28.retPornography may be mainstream in America, but obscenity is still illegal.
First, I personally don't believe pornography is "Mainstream", although at the rate we are going, we are not far from it. (I hope not)
Two, "Obscenity is still illegal". I think "illegal" is the operative word here. So because we are in a war, we should turn a blind eye to illegal activity? (I hope not)
We are becoming way too desensitized to these issues...at least until you become a victim of abusive behaviors borne from them...then the tune changes quickly.