redblueamerica.com

"Calling the sign discriminatory is more than simply legally suspect; it trivializes real discrimination."

i suppose that refusing service to black people wasn't real discrimination, then? or posting a sign above a water fountain that said "whites only" was equally illusory?

the fact is that the sign at geno's steaks IS real discrimination, and while other, more egregious examples of discrimination no doubt exist in philadelphia (and elsewhere), the effect of ALL examples of discrimination is cumulative.

perhaps the commission on human relations is overworked, and should focus on cases more deserving of its attention, but to say that one instance of discrimination trivializes all the others is to be narrow-minded and petty, and to completely misunderstand the nature and pervasiveness of ethnic prejudice itself.

"Joel, Im white. Ihave even a harder time finding A job because of afermative action and laws that follow the same. I cant get a buiesness loan because im a white male. Femals or non white females can get just about anything from the Gov because they are what they are. When you put laws in place to help one segment you leave out the others. There by leaving white angol saxson males out in the open.Just a thought."

Maybe your not getting hired or getting a loan because you can't spell."Just a thought"
Signed, Another white guy

You have successfully tortured the English language in your comment on this dialogue. While it may not fully disarm your own argument it does certainly weaken it; therefore, in the future it may help to remember to capitalize all proper nouns such as; English, God, Mexicans, and America. Further, it may find some benefit in using a spell checker, misspelling benefit would be terribly embarrassing.
Now to address, if however briefly, the contents of your argument. Your first point was that this country was founded on the English language; that does not make any sense, as far as I am aware no government body has been founded on the principle of a spoken or written language, grammar really does not lend itself to governing that directly. It would perhaps be more correct to say that this nation was founded by a group of people who spoke English. Your next comment states that previous immigrants had to learn English, which is true, but in that statement there is a implication that this requirement has changed, a quick look at the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website indicates that this is still in fact a requirement for naturalized citizenship, it is not a requirement for a Green Card. Your next and really final claim is that Mexicans are demanding that changes be made for their benefit. Your language here is not abundantly clear; there is no official language in the United States, so one is forced to wonder what you meant. I do apologize if I seemed cruel or overly meticulous in my evaluation of your paragraph, it is simply that you represent the danger of letting mentally-deficient ethnocentric jingoists the ability to voice their opinions in a public forum.

African Americans = Black Americans that are generally not from, or have ever visited Africa.

Spanish = Middle + South Americans that are generally not from, or have ever visited Spain.

Indians... You get where i'm going with this.

I think the main point of failure here is we are all stupid and are very loud about it.

He has the right to say whatever he wants. Is he right? My opinion is no. But he is also losing himself a lot of business in the process. Even if he never turned away a customer, how many people would refuse to eat there based on this?

He also needs to realize that he is descended from foreign speaking "invaders" as well. I'm sure his relatives loved the discrimination when they had to deal with it.

I wonder if the sign applies to sign language as well...

I don't disagree with your points. I was being a little snarky, but most people don't have my perspective, of living in a lower class neighborhood, where the strongest opposition to the Spanish is the African Americans. I swear they sound like Klansmen once they get going.

The assimilation problem is different that in the past. My grandparents, one set, were from Russia. Grandfather learned English easily, his wife never did do more than get by. They tended to shop at places that spoke Ukrainian just out of comfort. But there was only one wave of Eastern Europeans; once their children were assimilated, there was no more Ukrainian language signs.

The Spanish, the Mexicans especially are in a different position.

A) Many families were here first, in places that are now American states.

B) We conquered them, and made no effort to assimilate, educate or expel them.

C) Mexican immigration has, until very recently been temporary, and repeated. People crossed and re-crossed the border to get work, go to school, visit relatives, even just to get drunk or go to a movie. No need to learn English if you are just here for a season of grape harvesting.

D) Lots of places along the border are still Spanish speaking, have been for a hundred and fifty years. It was a very porous line until recently.

E) Once they are forced to choose El Norte or Mexico, the ones that stay and their children are learning English at the usual rate, just like always.

But if you just see the ones who have just arrived, of course they have no English. And the ones that have English, you never see, they are assimilated.

And once you are pissed off, they are are all hateful.

I love that lots of the "English only" posters don't know how to use a spell checker. "Murkan is my only furrin language"

Whatever. Some of the most vibrant parts of our cities, like Adams Morgan in DC change the languages of their shop signs every ten years or so, as people move in, become acculturated, and move on.

We used to require foreign languages in schools, it was supposed to make you a better citizen, and give you a better command of English.

History. The real reason for all this is that now that it is no longer correct, profitable, or safe to discriminate against African Americans, some people think that the Spanish will be easier targets.

They may find out different.

I think if people come to the US for a "better life" they should learn to read and speak English! And I agree with another writer who says everytime you call a business you need to tell them if you want english or Spanish. If you don't want to speak English or learn our customs enough to respect them, then GO HOME!

This country was founded on the english langauge and by the grace of god we have survived until now. Think of all the people who migrated here looking for a better place. They HAD to learn the language as part of becoming a citizen of this country. Now the mexicans come in and want things changed for thier benifit. My question is this. Just who the hell do they think they are?? Don't get me wrong---I believe they should be able to get citizenship as long as they do it like the many thousands who came before them. Long live america and long live the english language.

Joel, Im white. Ihave even a harder time finding A job because of afermative action and laws that follow the same. I cant get a buiesness loan because im a white male. Femals or non white females can get just about anything from the Gov because they are what they are. When you put laws in place to help one segment you leave out the others. There by leaving white angol saxson males out in the open.Just a thought.

I certainly agree with press#1 and his opinion. I lived in Okinawa, Japan for over 4 years and I could at least order lunch or dinner, say hello, goodbye, and read street signs.And this was during the first week. It was mandatory for my children to learn Japaneese in grade school (American school). I also spent 4 months in Greece with the same scenario. Learn some of the language that is native to that country or go hungery. I, also did a little time in the Phillipenes and learned enough to get my face slapped.