If its such a small issue why hasn't it been done yet...you make it sound so small but its bigger than you think...Whites had the opportunity of apologizing when slavery ended, but they didn't...whites had the opportunity of apologizing after the Jim Crow laws, but they didn't...It's hust like money, if someone owes you $300 you aren't going to just forget it...America is supposed to be built against things like racism, yet, they never apologized for their cruel acts of it...
It's called generational curses... Once ago, before you and I were born, your people beswindled my people...Whites forced many African families to break up and also forced Africans to mate if they didn't want to so they could create a "super slave"...sick isn't it?? So now when you see African men leaving homes, it comes as a result of what whites forced us to do...it was not always like this...Read the parts of history America doesn't allow you to see...America hasn't always been a "good guy".
I wouldn't say easy prey, although i would say trusting people...Thank America, lol good one, America should thank us...Really think about this and don't give a numb-minded answer...Do you think for one moment America would be the power of the world if it were not for Africans? Africans built their civilization over in Ancient Egypt and were forced to build yours...America wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for Africans
Apologize. The government should apologize to white America for giving us this burden. My ancestors fought and killed good southerners, so one day blacks could displace us in the cities, impregnate our daughters and leave us to raise them, and openly disdain our culture. Meanwhile we are told to shut up and deal with it, they were slaves hundreds of years ago. Wake up America. Stop catering to the blacks, who in case you haven't noticed, hold alot more sway in America than anyone cares to admit.
It was the dutch who began the slave trade. It was the Africans who were easy prey. Americans should be shamed that their ancensters purchased and owned slaves. That being said, this is 2008, look at America and look at Africa. I would say African Americans should be thanking America that they get to live in this country.
We should apologize for slavery, right after we give the native americans their country back. And we should apologize to the French,Mexicans,Spaniards,the British,the Japanese, Germans et al who we kept from taking control of the US. Slavery happened, it ended. Get over it. This touchy feely apologist state we have become is exactly what will lead us to be conquered in the end.
Many non-blacks assert that they shouldn't apologize for something they didn't do. There is logic to that thinking: if you didn't own slaves or enable others to own slaves, you aren't culpable. But the U.S. didn't do a very good job of converting its former slaves to full-fledged citizens. Slavery gave way to Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, redlining and educational and job discrimination. Although illegal now, these tools perpetuated a racial hierarchy that affects every American today, no matter how subtly. Just compare any rates of achievement, poverty, imprisonment by race; blacks are nowhere closing to catching up.
Yes, Black Americans are due an apology, at the least, and they got one. On Tuesday, July 29, 2008 the U.S. House issued a formal apology to Black Americans for years of slavery and injustices. No, blacks don't expect everyone to apologize, nor should everyone apologize, however, the American government allowed for hundreds of years of murder, mistreatment, and injustice towards the black community. Let's face it, being white can entitle you to certain priviledges, and most will never understand what it is like to walk in a black person's shoes. I've heard the phrase "get over it" in response to slavery and the mistreatment of blacks too many times. How can we as a community "get over" something or move past it when we are confronted with daily prejudices that's rooted in slavery.
When u get a chance go to www.Harriet Jacobs.com read the book life as a slave girl. You will feel the pain of what slavery did to thousands and thousands of blacks that work this so called land of american. Not in africa in america.The pain of slavery is over yes but pain is pass down through generation to generation. 1. Jim Crow 2. KKK 3. The Police 4.YOU. So yes slavery was bad because we still have the benefits from it have you ever looked at an african american and thought good thoughts about them or whats the first thing that comes to your mind. We all suffer from the institution of slavery in 2008. Who whould you hire first that black or that white who?
I'm not sure what the point would be. Slavery in America is no longer an issue. Don't we have bigger problems right now? I want the human species to evolve and people want to drag us back to the dark ages. Let's move on people; always remember the lessons of history and MOVE ON.
What a foolish question. If you can find anyone left alive who owned slaves, feel free to ask them to apologize to any former slave that "they owned". Are we to be held accountable for all of our ancestors sins. Why stop with slavery? Why not track down the ancestors of every criminal who got away with murder, rape, theft etc? How will an apology help anyone alive today? Are we as a culture so caught up in our emotions that an apology from the government or a specific group of people is going to ease some unspecified burden? I don't think so. Apologies from institutions or groups are a hollow apology and have no power to heal. The people who committed the sin and the ones who were sinned upon are long since dead. Let them lie in peace. Lets move on
OK, so what that blacks sold other blacks. It doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that there was a supply and infrastructure to support it ready and available in the US. Slavery was even written into the Constitution as part of the Connecticut Compromise.
Slavery is a sin of our past, and it is obviously affecting our present, whether we like it or not. The mass ghetto-fication of the urban areas did not happen because blacks are inherently bad at living in cities, but because people in academia decided that there should be a new housing code in the 1920's that makes housing values drop due to "ethnic diversity." In addition, slavery did not end in 1864 - it ended with the abolition of the Jim Crow laws that came with a finally righted Supreme Court.
Do you know why? Because groups like the ACLU did not back off of the subject.
Isn't an apology the realizing and admitting of a mistake, and if possible, repairing it?
The United States has made slavery illegal and instituted several anti-discriminatory laws. That sounds like "oops, let me fix that" to me.
Asking every citizen of the United States to apologise for something that most of their ancestors didn't do seems a bit petty.
Forgetting is not an option, but hanging on to this anger is not the best way to go either.
The reason the question is even a viable question is the fact that this was a state sanctioned institution. If it truly was just individuals enslaving other individuals, then the No side is %100 correct, "Get over it, I had nothing to do with it" is irrefutably the most prudent of all responses. The problem is that this was the legalistic government/state-sanctioned oppression of an entire people group. That means that by being a member of this organization known as the USA, we all involuntarily cosigned on it. I think the presumption people are making is that this is a finger being pointed at white people, so, naturally whites get defensive(just as blacks would under similar circumstances). The truth, however, is that this is a finger being pointed at the nation, the USA.
Right. Since they were brought here as slaves, I guess Americans had to keep using them as slaves -- after all, they were slaves.
I get your point: The sin of slavery wasn't limited to America. That doesn't diminish our nation's culpability, and it's certainly not a lesser sin just because other people were involved.
to the middle east. America did not go get Africans and enslave them... we bought them and used them. Bad enough yes. But if you want someone to apologize for the slavery of the Africans, go ask the Muslims. They started and propagated the slave trade. Harrumph!
oh,yell my friend america must earn-up to the cruity of slavery that she is responsiable for and the times she allowed the suffering go on without bring closer to the beast that profit and jim crowed their way to weath and muder on a group of people that only had the american government and those of the cloth to intervined. those of you that say america owes no apologize are among the gulity that contenue to stand-up for this wrong againts humanty. i realy don't beleive any of you good or bad mouth white fokes to get-it anyway base on your pass practise with humanty. and befor i go try to understand that all people was slaves at the hand of someone in history and the most brutal form of slavery was practice in america. hey just look around the world and view the mass this world is in today and at the hands of who????
Groups like the ACLU and the various out-spoken camps need to hush up. Slavery is done -it's expounded to the point of teary-eyed boredom in schools too- and existing racial tensions are only worsened by various groups claiming that they are oppressed. Time can only heal our wounds if we don't keep going back and picking them open at every available opportunity.
America cannot be judged by customs, mores of other nations, peoples, etc. We had a constitution which guaranteed freedom for all people. Blacks who sold slaves to America should not be credited with introducing slavery to America>>Our constitution, our moral fabric forbid it>>There were god-fearing whites in those days who saw the evil in it>>Some were afraid to speak out for fear of ostracism or death>>Our national government sanctioned it by its silence on the issue. After slaverey was outlawed in this country, in came the Jim Crow laws derived from the american majority race which continues in some form or another until this day>>How would you know<<>>Ask you brother!!
Actually, the indigenous peoples of the continent we now know as Africa were separate tribes and viewed themselves as ethnically different from members of groups not of their own. They did enslave members of other tribes and groups and initially, Europeans had no access to the interior of the continent and were able to get slaves only with the help of an indigenous slave trader. The slave trade throughout Africa, Europe, the Middle East and Asia existed long before the Transatlantic Slave Trade. Europeans, who founded the colonies and subsequent countries in the Americas neither started slavery nor caused it, but they did propagate it. In the European colonies that would eventually become the United States of America, it was maintained in a particularly harsh way where inferiority and second class citizenship or low class/slave status was strictly based on skin color and institutionalized. So, you are absolutely incorrect when you say "america" started it but the United States did maintain a system already in place and struggled to adapt and faught tooth and nail to maintain that system of subjugation when that system was deconstructed after the Civil War, especially in the South.
Apoloigize for what? Slavery existed long before there was an America. Thousands of years, even. If anything, America should be credited with ending slavery, in the western hemisphere.
Blacks did start enslaving themselves.
In Africa they would take the strongest of the men from tribes and sell them to different tribes or countries. So yes you could say African Americans did start it and we kept it going.
I'm not saying it is right.
I'm just saying that we weren't the one's with the original idea.
Actually Africans did enslave themselves. I believe the number is about 50%-60% of the African slaves that we enslaved were done so with the help of fellow tribesman. They would sell out their neighbors for money or the assurance their family wouldn't get taken. So yes....they did enslave themselves.
you really should have taken the time to read the ridicoulous remark. how could you blame africans, they didnt enslave themselves they were forced to it wasnt like they had an option it was either help capture your people for slavery or become a slave dont get it twisted. you wrote a lot of nonsense and you really need to pick up a book no slavery was not started in america but in a land who claims to be the great protector who runs to the aid of all others in need it took a long time from slavery to jim crow laws for them to get it right.
before you make such a statement regading jewish people and blacks the cases were totally different slavery happened in america and no black person was ever compensated for it the holocaust happened in germany and yet the american government felt necessary to compensate their survivors. blacks dont use slavery as a crutch and racism is still very much alive. Now the people who hate black people simply because the color of their skin no longer wear white sheets, they were coporate outfits.
before you make such a statement regading jewish people and blacks the cases were totally different slavery happened in america and no black person was ever compensated for it the holocaust happened in germany and yet the american government felt necessary to compensate their survivors. blacks dont use slavery as a crutch and racism is still very much alive. Now the people who hate black people simply because the color of their skin no longer wear white sheets, they were coporate outfits.
No, America did not invent slavery, however, we did participate in it. We participated in an action that killed millions of people as well as tortured them. No, most people today do not have a direct connection with slavery, but it is still apart of our past just as much as Columbus finding America is part of our past. Usually you apologize for something that you are sorry you did, and if you are not sorry about slavery than I don't know what to tell you.
This issue is usually talked about as if slavery got its start in America, when any educated person understands that slavery has existed throughout human history. It's not about black and white people, either--historically, every race has been involved on both sides.
"White people" are cast today as villains in the story of American slavery (even though blacks had slaves, as did Indians and others), but if you look at the big picture, it was white Christians of European descent who finally took the steps to end slavery in the modern world.
That said, none of us alive today had anything to do with slavery, one way or another.
Yeah um the Federal reserve has made slaves of us all you morons! Maybe you should teach yourself some truth and go watch Arron Russo's movie America freedom to fascism. Oh and don't forget about the military industrial complex we have been irreversibly turned into in the past 20 years. 9/11 changed some laws you may or may not know about yet.
I am NOT racist at all, but I'm really starting to get fed up with blacks using the fact that their great, grandfather was enslaved in this country as a crutch. If a black man and a white man have the same skills and apply for the same job, and the white guy wins, it's automatically racism. Yes slavery was horrible, yes I am ashamed that our nation has such atrocities in it's past, but we have reconciled, we have said we're sorry. No, something like slavery cannot ever be fully repaid, but for blacks, they seem to think that their ancestor's suffering entitles them to preferential treatment. The Jewish people were hunted and murdered in massive numbers in one of the greatest horrors humanity has yet to produce. But they do not sit around and complain about what happened, they don't bring up the holocaust in order to gain sympathy.
When I hear about slavery I go deaf. I am not prejudice. I know so many people of so many ethnic types and persuations. I am an artist (Photographer, musician) and truly appreciate people for who they are, color or ethnicity is irrelevant. Unfortunately there are black leaders that like to see this issue on the front burner because it gives them relevance and cash. I wouldn't know how the slave issue is even an issue. I thought it was resolved with the civil war. Are there still animosities?? I think that when somebody runs around saying "You owe me money" but the argument as to who owes and why becomes more abstract with each passing day, it becomes apparent that it is a scam and a money grab. Didn't Rodney King say "Can't we all get along?"
That is just plain stupid. You go to school to learn a trade or skill or science that is MARKETABLE. In otherwords, you are becoming your own brand! Then someone else, I'm sorry, the EVIL CORPORATION says "OK, I need that. And I'll compensate you $XX,XXX.XX per year/week/month to use what you provide. Then you get excited because you landed a job and you celebrate with your friends and you become a consumer and spend lots of money on food,clothes,cars, I-pods, etc.. Then, after you get tired of being a grown up, you revert back to childhood when a teacher/parent steps in and says "I'm sorry, we all need to have the same of everything so it's fair". The truth is, it's not fair. If you are overproductive and good at what you do, the union you belong to will prevent you from being compensated at a higher rate than anyone else is because they are busy guaranteeing the slug that sits next to you,sucking up all your oxygen, gets paid the same as you. If you decide to take risk, because you are unique, you can lose big, but when it works out right, you can WIN BIG and become a corporate megabillionaire too. The moral of the story is; If you don't like helping the corporate megabillionaires make money, quit and become your own C.M.. If not, be thankful that on a smaller scale you have something you do that earns an income and has some security (After all if you are a C.M. you don't want to stop being one. And you will work hard to stay a C.M. that employs people)
It's not about if I or my ancestors participated in slavery. We as a country at one time partook in slavery and proffered of it's atrocities. Any nation that has done the same should, as a country formally state their regret that such a thing was a part of their history.
It's a statement of who we are today as a people. If we can't make it than perhaps we haven't come far enough just yet.
I was going to post that historically slave owning nations should also apologize for slavery, oh wait that was all of Europe, Asia and Africa.... We were one (relatively small) country out of the hundreds that were slave owning during that era let alone recorded history.
However, I've never considered the fact that no one points their finger at the African nations that sold the slaves. Great point!
Why do this issue have to be a black or white thing? shake your tree and im sure a black will fall out. Slavery is wrong no matter who did it. American slavery broke up family took you from your country. And now your outside god's grace. Africans did'nt come to this country speaking english. There is a pamlet that you should read how to keep your N**** a good worker for over 400 years,it still works until this day. Its like training them like a horse. im sure shaka wasn't handing out information on how to train another human. there was war's but africans stayed in africa. which he was from the region of south africa. slaves was stolen from west africa. not one slave came to america from from there. and villiages stayed with villiages your americans split up family sold your mom your dad your child. they didnt hang beat rape work them from sun up to sun down with only a rest on sundays
Why is the united states the only nation who seems to have been responsible for this apparently universal evil? What about the africans who are still in Africa?
How do these people think that MILLIONS of Africans were captured and forced into slavery? Do they really think that boat loads of white europeans came over and went stomping all over the veldt with butterfly nets? Africans who were taken as slaves were captured by other africans and sold by other africans.
Yeah, I know, Alex Haley kind of glossed over that little factoid didn't he. Ever hear of the Zulu or the Watusi? How do you think they founded their bad-ass empires? They did it by conquering territory and then cleansing it of people who were not Zulus or Watusi, i.e. selling into slavery those lucky enough not to be slaughtered outright. Ever hear of the "Well of Tears? Do you know who it belonged to? It belonged to the father of Shaka Zulu, and in time to Shaka Zulu himself. The same Shaka Zulu who modern african americans like to get weepy over when remembering their august heritage. Seems slavery was the easiest answer to hanging on to conquered territory. Not to mention being pretty lucrative.
Now I've asked alot of questions here, but my real queston is this:
If I have somehow inherited the guilt my ancestors accrued from being evil slave owners, then why hasn't most of africa inherited the guilt their ancestors accrued from being evil slave merchants? Why don't african americans seek reparations from Nigeria, and Ghana and Sierra Leone (aside from the obvious reason, blood from a stone and what not)? Why are americans who bought slaves branded eternally with the mark of Satan, but africans who captured and sold their own people into slavery were probably just victims themselves? Why is that?
I apologize on an almost daily basis silently to myself and to anyone that will listen that slavery existed in this land. Most of the people who live in the US came here because they wanted to. Blacks, for the most part, are here because they were brought here as slaves. We are paying the price of this sin through crime and social blight. I'm sure the black folks wish they had never been brought here and wish they were still in mother Africa. Actually, that's a good question. To my Black brothers and sisters, do you wish that slavery never happened and you were still in Africa drinking out of a plastic rain barrel and cutting off arms, or are you grateful to your ancestors who had to suffer slavery so that you can now live here? If my ancestors were forced here, I think I would do everything I could to go back.
The question itself is stupid (as are both the answers). The united States did not invent slavery, and we were the second or third country on earth to abolish it completely. Every civilization on the face of the earth prior to the industrial revolution was founded and owed it's daily existence to the institution of slavery. Let me say that again. Every civilization, everywhere on earth, at any point in time you'd care to choose, prior to the 1820s AD, was based upon and relied upon the exploitation of indentured human labor. Every one. This attitude that slavery was an american evil just baffles me. What do you think the term "peasant" referred to in europe?
How about the word "serf", or "peon"?
Slave, slave, and slave! The ugly truth is that prior to the clever invention of all these machines to do work faster and better than a man could do it himself, probably about 98 percent of the people on earth, at any given time, were slaves of one kind or another! Why should the United States have to apologize for that? I, personaly, am descended mainly from russian stock, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any grand dukes in the old family tree. That means my ancestors were "serfs", or "slaves", yet no one seems to think that Russia owes me an apology (or any reparations, mores the pity). Slavery is not the evil that haunts america, racism is, and if you think that slavery is a prerequisite for racism, you should take a trip, and see some more of the world. Racism is everywhere, even, believe it or not, in countries where slave status was not a question of race. Racism is not a result of slavery, racism is a result of the importance our monkey brains attach to the differences our little monkey eyes see in the people around us. If you're an African American and you just need to hear someone apologize, then apologize yourself. Apologize to your children for teaching them that their slave heritage is some dark nasty thing that someone needs to be sorry for, and start telling them the truth:
This country was built by slaves, just like every country before it, and that this country those slaves built was instrumental in bringing about the changes in human society that made slavery itself obsolete. Thats something to be proud of, not ashamed about. And stop wrapping your slave heritage around yourselves like it's some cloak of rightousness, because it's really nothin' special. We are all descended from slaves. Period! Every one of us.
The 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution provided an untold amount of rights that millions of European immigrants enjoyed, while African Americans had to wait a hundred years to be welcomed as full fledge citizens. In addition the Civil Rights Acts of the 60s provided rights to all subsequent Americans, not just African Americans. Women of European descent gained significant social gains in our economy. Also, slave trade provided the United States economy with a significant competitive advantage economically provided to the economic elite to invest in the Industrial Revolution. So I would hardly call the opinions of African Americans "marginal", "radical", or “divisive”.
I would like to recommend two articles for further research on the Reverend Wright “issue”:
How many times do we need to say we are sorry? The only way to clear it all up is to start all over. So, anyone born during that era would need to die. Go ahead. Die. Then we can start all over.
And, not for nothing, but why would anyone who was not born during that era need to be apologized to? I dont remember hanging or beating anyone. Why should I say im sorry?
Sacrificing your family and freedom to work 80 hours a week fattening the coffers of corporate megabillionaires isn't a form of slavery?
The end of this cycle of greed and servitude will only come when the system completely collapses - making the apology, or lack thereof, a pretty moot point.
America didn't start slavery. Not to mention the justifications for saying yes or no are stupid as well. "No, I didn't have anything to do with it." I'm sure that everybody who answers no to this question is saying that because they didn't have anything to do with it. This is seriously stupid.
If America came out and apologized (reparations, etc.) then that means that people think this was an isolated incident. Almost every great civilization ever relied on slavery. The Romans, who were the greatest civilization ever, had an entire empire built around the need for slavery. This isn't only America's sin.
Amen brother. Finally, someone with enough knowledge about the subject to make a intelligent reference to the question. I thank you for your honesty and intellectual aptitude.
Whoever wrote this question obviously knows nothing of New World slavery.
And how pray does a country apologize? Cus last time I checked many of it's citizens have apologized on many occasions.
If you meant "should the United States pay the ancestors of former slaves reparations." Then say that instead. And furthermore if reparations money was to be paid to their ancestors then I believe the same day they should end Equal Opportunity Employment.
You said go back to were we come from on the jet or how ever we got here. If we leave so should you. But where would you go your a person with out a country to run to. america does not I repeat does not belong to you. this native american land not yours. Thats why there called Native Americans. So you should pack now and go and take your flag with you, we dont care what you do with it.But I can give you some kind advice on what you can use it for.
Lets see (1)to dry your car off with (2)to sweep your house or tralier? (3)as a fishing pole. (4)to but your garbage in.(5)u can put it on the side of your glasses while you ride your 10 spend bike. so you should't have a problem with your flag it's very useful. you cant claim a land that was stoleing from another race of people. and then tell another person to leave. more advice when your done reading this try orbits or cheap tickets most likely thats what you'll need. And put your pretty little flag in your lap on the plain so you can have it for the things I gave you advice on, Have a safe an long trip good bye :)
Nothing wrong, of course, except that it was a flag created more or less to defend the right of Confederate states to keep black people in involuntary servitude.
theere is NOTHING wrong with that Confederate Flag and I am well proud of it and proud to be a part of this great nation. no one makes you stay here. if you don't like it pack up and move out. the border is open and jets fly everyday. if you don't like it here, leave.
Yes we have been throught pain of another race in are life,or are parents lives. But what we need to do is learn and grow from it. And never let history repeat it self, So what we should do is get know people that are diffrent from us. And worry about the future and not the past. whats done is done I am a (african american women) who would love to have people of all race be friends of mine, without holding any judgement towards one another, you'll love me just as I would love you, thats when the healing begins when you can look at me as a human instead of my skin, tell me how can we do that. lets erase what are father and grandfather have installed in are minds about another human a race of people that you might feel is under you, when we die im sure god is not putting us in diffrents levels because of are color. We are as one we are judge for are works on earth, So please lets just stop the hatered. look its silly to judge someone based on there color we are humans.yes mistakes have been made but as of now lets enjoy the life that was giveing to us, Just tell me how we can heal now.. thats what we should be writeing about. tell me when can we be friends or when can I call you my family and im yours. Yes slavery was wrong alot of humans was sold just like animals. point that was a lesson learned that it would never ever happen again open are hearts and are minds lets not expect american to say sorry for anything thats the nature of this country, its up to us to change are views towards one another so tell me how can we do that. when can I invite you over for dinner and you do the same because of friendship, lets stop the hatered and love
Has everyone forgotten about the mass genocides we committed to the Native Americans. History is bloody and messed up. It was just ignorance. Im convinced any other country in our position would have done it. As long as we don't repeat history again GET OVER IT!
All I know is that being a white guy, I'm apparently not allowed to try to solve the race problem in America, since I'm part of the institutional problem, no matter what I do. Instead why don't we work together to fight the poverty problem in America, and the crime problem, the prison system, the list goes on. There are plenty of problems in America that we all can get behind to try to fix. And I think that fighting these battles will help show the light to how we can end whats left of our racist history.
My dad's side of the family goes all the way back to the American indians.They were here before anyone else.Have checked my mom's side of the family and none of her ancestor's had slaves of any kind ever.IF my ancestor's had been a part of black/white slavery,I know that I would feel bad about it,but since my ancestor's had no part in it and because I have never been biased towards anyone of any color,then I shouldn't be held responsible.I want to go forward in time NOT backwords.
Your post was mostly helpful and insightful till you said this:
The thing we need you all do not have the capacity in your feeble little minds to understand or even care about. To top it all off you all would not know how to give it to us. Your minds have to change. The way you think about a any person, let alone a black one, has to change. Instead of focusing on race, know that every person you see is nothing more than another human being, thats all.
I must point out that this thread is indeed about reparations and apologies! Go back to the very beginning question to see it for yourself.
And as far as minds changing, FIRST check your own for honesty. Are you fully looking in the mirror of reality? Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, some of the problems besetting your own group could be self inflicted?
Are you also ready to admit that racism cuts BOTH ways? Could it be that continual talk of victimhood has engendered an inbred racism against the perceived "oppressors"?
IF you already have, and are secure enough to own up to your own groups failings, then let's get talking!
And speaking of "feeble little minds" THAT kind of invective just about invalidates anything constructive you may have said on the subject.
Also, you indirectly you bring up another subject...the "You can't understand the black mind" argument implies that the Black man can perfectly understand the white man's mind. In other words: moral superiority by reason of victimhood!
No, the average nonwhite cannot understand the white any more than is the case in reverse. What it DOES take, though, is for all parties to drop preconceived ideas about the other before they attempt a dialog.
Try dropping your"feeble little mind" rhetoric and just communicate honestly, take responsibility for your own actions and don't wait for someone else to bail you out when you make a mistake.
THAT advice applies to ALL...no matter the color of skin!
Slavery is a very sensitive subject and I am not sure you have the full grasp of what it means. This is not about racism, as you stated, no, it is deeper than that. First of all, the civil war was not about slavery. It was about the south wanting to break from the north and be a seperate nation. The freeing of the slaves was only a strategy used by the north to weaken the south. So,forgive me if I sound rude, but, your ancestors deaths were not caused because they wanted to free the slaves. The real issue with slavery is actually the fact that the average white person here in America, can pretty much trace their roots without a problem. They know where they came from and if they wanted could have the names and biography of the ancestors they lost in the civil war, ther war of 1812, american revolution, and the list goes on to across the pond. However, a person who is black in America, would have a harder time creating that family tree. Ask yourself why for a minute. Slavery took these people from their heritage, culture, and way of life, and forced them to submit to the will of a "master" who looked at them as no more (and in some cases, less) than the cattle in the field. The "hurt" blacks feel is the "hurt" brought upon them as the result of freedom. Life did not magically become easy because they were freed, it actually worsened. The quality of life got worse for the newly "freed" black. Most was the result of generations of conditioning by their white "masters". Not really known to most people, is the degree of conditioning that took place in the realm of slavery and its lingering effects. The black man is constantly having to prove he is a man. The black woman is always trying to protect the male black. She stands by him and hovers over him. This is all a mental state and prohibits growth in the black american. They are cursed by the freedom, granted in haste, an afterthought, if you will. The black male continues to suffer, yes, 200 years later, he suffers. No, it is not directly your fault or the fault of your friend, but think also about the years of struggle for the black man just to be considered human in America. Think of the terroristic attacks by ku klux klan and other terrorist groups against the freedom of the blacks. Think of the years of being told they could not vote or make the same wage as a real "man". Not that they were not qualified or could not speak the language, but because they were black and were only suited to picking cotton and doing the bidding of the white man. They did not get the equal opportunities granted to aliens coming into the united states today, who pretty much fresh off the boat can get loans and start businesses lucrative enough to afford the "American Dream". No, the black man, though born and raised in America, is always trying to fit in society. Today, hatred and discrimination, toward the black man, comes not only from whites, but from the very people who could be in some way related, the native African. They look at the American black not as a relative, but as a lower species of man, just like everyone else. It is not easy to be a black in America. The struggle continues daily. It definitely was not settled with the civil war. That war only started the struggle to be treated equally. Then after the law recognized the black man as an equal, another struggle started to be seen as an equal. That war continues to this day. So, bottom line do we need an apology from a white man to feel better about ourselves as Black people, no. I would not take one if it was offered. The thing we need you all do not have the capacity in your feeble little minds to understand or even care about. To top it all off you all would not know how to give it to us. Your minds have to change. The way you think about a any person, let alone a black one, has to change. Instead of focusing on race, know that every person you see is nothing more than another human being, thats all. So, save all your debates about apologies and reparations. Everyone knows that in order to make ammends, one must first feel they have done something wrong. You, personally, may have done nothing wrong, but that does not excuse the fact that all those years ago, a large group of people were taken against their will and forced to change their whole way of life to suite the satisfaction of a man they did not know and lose their value as a human being with free will to choose whose rules they will follow. It also does nothing to suffice the longing of a people to feel adequate and accepted by the country they helped to build. By the way, some of those union solders were black as well. So, apology not required. Thanks and God bless.
I just want to agree with you. Iam white I have ancestors that fought and died to free slaves. Iam not seeking a thank-you,and have nothing to apologize for
I agree with the last poster, that apologies are only effective for the one who has been offended. No one in America today was a direct victim of slavery and no one in America today was a slave owner, therefore, no one DESERVES an apology from anyone.
I was taught that the apology for slavery was when the good guys won and slavery was abolished. Wasn't the blood shed to ensure an end to slavery enough of an apology?
This is not a racism issue, as much as most would like to continue the argument. It is a matter of moral accountability, and again, our country settled that argument long ago. I detest racism as an evil cancer that still permeates our country. But this issue is not about race any more..we settled that 150 years ago.
An Apology by the government, whether State or Federal, costs nothing but a bit of pride and a compromise of principals. It may hurt a little, and it MAY make a few feel better about the country in which they are voting citizens, but the benefit will only last for one generation.
What then, when succeeding generations want their own apology? Will we be harangued into one more apology, an endless racial "dance of the macabre", an endless "Groundhog Day" experience? Apologies are only effective for the ones to whom it was issued.
As far as reparations are concerned: what should be done? Should we shell out money to ALL African Americans? Do people realize that African immigration in the past 50 years has outnumbered the total number of Africans enslaved before the 1860's? Will they inadvertently benefit as well?
Should we restrict it to only those who can prove that they are ancestors to slaves? What about the fact that insufficient records exist to effectively address the issue? What then?
As an American whose ancestors worked as maids, tavern workers, cops and local politicos at the beginning of the 20th century I have a suggestion: Why not ensure a place for every African American in the public college or University of their choice along with a stipend for living expenses for two or three generations say, for 50 years or so? That would be more than ANY other group has ever received from the government.
With out of wedlock births at 48% and with over 25% of young males incarcerated for drug and violent offenses, what better method than education to help change a mindset and identification with the same as "African American culture".
But just to hand out cash?NEVER
! That course has never been successful, and never will!
Im sick of hearing people crieing over this.Get over it allready.I have some Cherokee blood in my veins and alot of them were flat out slaughtered.Forced to give up their way of life an their land.We say that when saddam took kuwait to get out.But refuse to give back the land to its rightful owners the AMERICAN INDIAN.
Slavery was and is not limited to our country alone. Many countries, tribes, classes and races throughout history have used slavery at some point, even exploiting their own races. It's rediculous to expect modern society to make amends and apologize for something that happened in the past. All can only look to the future to better themselves and ensure that it doesn't happen again to themselves or anyone else. To add to that, I also think that affirmative action is no longer necessary. By having this we are still fueling some discrimination and racism. If all are now created equal, may the most qualified person succeed. Regardless of the past history of slavery and adversity, self motivated people who don't pass blame and accept responsibility for their own actions and futures are those who succeed and are happy knowing that they did their best as an American to persue their dream.
My family came here some time ago, but none were involved with what had happened in the past. I'm white, but my entire family is a mixture of Japanese, Eqyptian, Norwegian, Czech, Irish and Native American. One race was a conqueror, one was prone to endentured servitude, and three have been slaves at some point in history. Nobody asked for an apology, they just did their best to overcome and push their future generations to accept history for what it is, history, good and bad.
It is ridiculus to think that an apology to people who had nothing to do with being slaves, by people who had nothing to do with having slaves, would fix anything. Oh, maybe it would pacify the few that think slavery had something to do with thier way of life in the US now, but eventully we would be apologizing to another group who feel the same way further down the road. I beleive the thousands of Americans who fought to end slavery, thousands who died, have done an awful lot of apologizing. What some people may have done at one time or another should not be the burden of the many, however many years later. We are all accountable for our individaul actions not the actions of anyone from another time or era. It is now the 21st century, and we as humans have been through a lot of wars, slavery, major disasters etc. We need to focus on the future, all of us, for our own individual selfs. For the record, another individual mentioned earlier, that it was the Africans who sold other Africans to the Eoropeans, who then transported an sold those slaves to the different trading spots all through the Atalantic. It was those same Africans for Centuries before that had always had slaves. The Egyptians for example used slaves to build the Pyramids and many other things since. Al Sharpton likes to point out that it was blacks that had the edge on whites in many intelectual areas, he forgets to add that it was the blacks that created slavery in the first place.
The ancestors of modern blacks sold others into slavery. Will modern blacks apologize and pay reparations to each other to right the wrongs committed by their ancestors?
It turns my stomach that the "not in our name" bunch (if I may paint with a broad brush) would concede guilt on my behalf for something my ancestors didn't even help with. They were too busy starving in Ireland at the time. But I expect my big check from England any day now for forcing my family to leave Ireland. Then it's the sweet life for me!
How about this instead: We hire a medium to channel some dead slave owners, and Joel can convince Colonel Sartoris of his sins, and maybe he'll apologize.
While we're at it, when are Joel's Mennonite friends (see his bio) going to pay the Jews for WWII? It makes as much sense; the Mennonites were long gone from Germany by the time that happened, but they WERE German, just like I'm white, but my people weren't even in this country yet.
I think slavery was a terrible part of our society in year past. But, I don't have any guilt about being a white man in the US today. My father came over from Czechoslovakia and I had nothing to do with it. I think blacks have been treated terribly in our history, but I did not enslave them, they were sold to slavers by their own black brothers who to this day have slaves and sell slaves. I have been to Kinshasha and other parts of the Congo. If I was a black guy I think I'd rather be in the US than living the way 98% of the African do!
We've talked about that, Evan. We talk about it every day. Comments that are nothing more than name-calling get taken down. But we're not going to get into the business of pulling comments for spelling and grammar, tempting though that might be. We are, to some extent, trying to take a light hand here.
We want users like you to play a role, too. Ultimately the success or failure of the site depends on the tone we set. And for egregious cases, there is a way for readers to report objectionable content. Finally, I would encourage anyone reading this to take a look at the "about us" page. It explains clearly what we're trying to achieve here.
But let me just reiterate that we're all in favor of spirited discussions here. We can disagree. Joel and I disagree all the time. But we don't call each other names or ascribing bad faith or foul motives to one another. It's neither useful nor persuasive.
Agreed. The almost uniformly low quality of the comments on this poll make me wonder if the moderators might not assume some sort of comment monitoring responsibility. The intelligent expressions that were made here were immediately drowned out by illiterate rantings.
I cannot let this pass: "while reading these (comments) I came to realize that things will never change just the merchandise. this is a bad subject to talk about all these anonymous (commenters) with a cold and evil heart not towards slavery it self but towards human rights..."
Slavery remains an emotional issue. Maybe that's an understatement. When Joel and I raised the topic, I honestly didn't expect it would generate so much passion and such intensity. I knew people would have an opinion, but not quite so visceral.
I don't like some of the comments we've seen on this thread over the past few days. A lot of heat, not so much light -- and often contrary to the spirit of this Web site.
That said, I disagree strongly that "things will never change." Things have changed. The United States of 2008 is a much different place than the United States of 1988 or '68 or '48. The laws are different. Popular culture is much, much different. The blatant racism of a George Wallace is simply not acceptable today. Even Wallace changed his outlook, for goodness sake!
So why are people so hung up on this slavery apology? In part, I think, because people are tired of being blamed for a crime they had no part of. Collective guilt in a nation founded on individual rights? Not likely. Acknowledging a history of injustice and the struggle to correct those injustices is well and good. But when does it end? Slavery ended nearly 150 years ago. At what point do we throw off the shackles on our minds?
while reading these blogs I came to realize that things will never change just the merchandse.this is a bad subject to talk about all these anonymous blogers with a cold and evil heart not towards slavery it self but towards human rights,im not asking for you to say your sorry because your rite u didn't cause the pain of so many blacks back in those days,but the way u think is just like those who inslave,what has change? we have to heal and stop hateing each other. but the way u think is sad,if u only understood black skin and what we have to deal with the racism from whites in 2008 while u enjoy your pail skin.the reason y I call u sad is because what u say u will never say in public but u can type it in the privacy of your own home,but im glad to know how the other race really feels behind close doors.stop fakeing with us be u.stop acting like your really are friends,as long as your up front about the way u feel then I know to stay away from u,stop tanning your skin and getting lip injects to look other than what you are be white hate be afraid just be you. and as far as blacks being racist thats a hard one to swallow,when your the one who causes so much pain.you judge without getting to know its got to be a hard life for you,but don't say sorry to me or my race just say sorry for being you,But I cant say all whites are bad there is a few good one's out there,but there are alot of them who spoils it for the one's that are good,lets just enjoy life get to know one another so we can speak on the human race instead of speaking on the black race.and keep the mule
Yes, slavery is wrong, it's a horrible thing to do to someone, deny them their right to their own life. But what does this have to do with today? People talk about social repercussions and the hatred that has come from it, but why should I be blamed for what my ancestors did? In my opinion, to be a good person in general is not hard. All it takes is a little thought. Why do you have the right to take another's life? Because his father hurt yours twenty years ago? Hatred only breeds more hatred, vengeance will come back to haunt you. This I know from personal experience. The point I'm trying to make is this: Why is it that people want me and my peers to apologize for something that happened to their ancestors centuries ago? No one has a right to what I earn by my hand, and I have no right to what anyone else earned. These are the beliefs that lead to appreciating hard work, and respecting everything others have. If you want an apology for what people with the same color skin as me did almost 200 years ago, go raise the dead and ask them for your apology... you won't get one from me.
Why should America have to apologize for slavery when there are millions of African Americans here in the first place. They're going to apologize to themselves for their distant relatives using slaves? We Caucasians can't help that our ancestors put yours in crappy little shacks and made them work. That isn't our fault. That makes no sense. I'm not gonna apologize to people who aren't even alive anymore for them being made slaves.
Quit being stupid. We don't need to apologize to you. That was a long time ago. Live in the now. Get your head out of your ass and realize that you're the racist ones. The NAACP? Only for African Americans (or colored persons if you want to get technical). I'm white. So I can't join. I feel like the subject of racism now. Thanks.
In a nutshell, slavery in any form is bad. American slavery of black Africans was particularly awful, and the stigma still hangs around today in the form of habitual racism and mistrust from both sides of the issue (just read this post to get armloads of examples).
However, it is not for the United States as a nation to apologize for slavery, since the United States as a nation didn't condone slavery. It was up to the individual state to make that decision, and while many states latched on to it, just as many states abhorred the notion. Just like the Red/Blue split we have today, Americans were of two completely different minds about crucial social issues even back then.
Now, several states, including Florida, have made official apologies. I fully support the idea that the rest of the states who participated in the gross act of slavery should be encouraged to issue their own apologies as well. However, the United States as a nation has ALREADY issued its own formal apology with the Emancipation Proclamation and by saying to the slave states, "Hey, we realize that individual states should have a basic number of state's rights, but dude, humans should have rights as well, and slavery is just freakin' wrong."
Apparently, this has not really eliminated racial tension, however. I know firsthand, because I come from an embarrassingly racist family in Louisiana. I love my parents, but they are particularly benighted when it comes to issues of basic human rights, and I have unhappily had to distance myself from them because of that. The problem is, a little education would go so far to help their understanding and tolerance, but education is so undervalued in this country that it is a struggle just to get our children to graduate with basic math and language skills, to say nothing of a grasp of the implications of complex social dynamics.
The point is, no amount of apology is ever going to accomplish anything as long as America not only tolerates but pretty much encourages ignorance among its citizens, because apologies are just words--they aren't really actions; and we all can agree that actions speak louder. Education is the key to understanding and tolerance, and it should be the focus of any and all American initiatives. Everything else is dependent on it, and would then fall into place.
Your response is honest and refreshing, but I do not think it is wise to say "get over it" to a group of people that this most recent violation of human rights has affected.
Much of the criminal activity you note in the Black community is due to a culture that has been passed down from African American slavery. Victor Hugo stated: "if you call a man 'bad' long enough, he will fulfill your prophecy."
It is also inarguable that many White families prospered because of systematic racism and human rights violations in this country. We also know that many Whites' ancestors immigrated to this country AFTER slavery, AFTER the civil rights movement (ongoing), and have family members that had to endure discrimination and injustice also.
I don't understand the logic, however, of telling people that other people have suffered as well, therefore the suffering, and contributing factors, will not be addressed. This seems to be willful ignorance.
If this were a non-issue, we would not see so many defensive and angry responses when this topic is explored.
As a side note, reperations were promised, and are in order, but not in monetary form. Education is key.
I know your (great) grandparents were promised reparations and I can see where having the government just hand you forty acres would be nice. But what are you going to do with a mule. Do you really want it? I say the time has come to give up the fight for the mule.
I am a person as u say with African blood and I would never get on my knees and thank the white man for bringing me or my ancisters to america everyday african american deals with racism. youll never know because you never have to be reminded that your black.america was built on blood. black peoples blood and we are still waiting for are forthy acres and a mule.america or white pepole was wrong for this country that they stold from native americans. but at least they get a check each month.what do we get for the work that are family has put in.we dont even own the white house that african slaves built.and another thing I am light skinned black so that means that someone down in my blood line was rape by some white person. there is alot that america should apoligies for because white people are still rich due to slavery.while so many blacks are suffering. so i guess i should get on my knees even though how we got here begin with a crime. so u should get on your knees if someone kills,rape,hang,beat,inslave,starve your family think about it
Yes, but if you look at slavery in these cultures you will find them to be entirely different facts from the African slave trade. Two thirds of the captured slaves died in transportation alone. The conscious splitting of families and tribes; the squashing of native tongue and history; and, in the vast majority of cases, the lack of opportunity for the slave to earn their freedom by labor. All of these define the African slave trade as different from those historical examples cited.
As far as "we didn't start it." That to is willfully ignorant of the fact that the colonization of the New World would not have succeeded without slaves.
Thoughts
Excuse Me?!
Submitted on October 7th, 2008 by AnonymousIf its such a small issue why hasn't it been done yet...you make it sound so small but its bigger than you think...Whites had the opportunity of apologizing when slavery ended, but they didn't...whites had the opportunity of apologizing after the Jim Crow laws, but they didn't...It's hust like money, if someone owes you $300 you aren't going to just forget it...America is supposed to be built against things like racism, yet, they never apologized for their cruel acts of it...
Here's More Knowledge...
Submitted on October 7th, 2008 by AnonymousIt's called generational curses... Once ago, before you and I were born, your people beswindled my people...Whites forced many African families to break up and also forced Africans to mate if they didn't want to so they could create a "super slave"...sick isn't it?? So now when you see African men leaving homes, it comes as a result of what whites forced us to do...it was not always like this...Read the parts of history America doesn't allow you to see...America hasn't always been a "good guy".
Here's A Little Knowledge...
Submitted on October 7th, 2008 by AnonymousI wouldn't say easy prey, although i would say trusting people...Thank America, lol good one, America should thank us...Really think about this and don't give a numb-minded answer...Do you think for one moment America would be the power of the world if it were not for Africans? Africans built their civilization over in Ancient Egypt and were forced to build yours...America wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for Africans
Apologize?!?
Submitted on September 14th, 2008 by AnonymousApologize. The government should apologize to white America for giving us this burden. My ancestors fought and killed good southerners, so one day blacks could displace us in the cities, impregnate our daughters and leave us to raise them, and openly disdain our culture. Meanwhile we are told to shut up and deal with it, they were slaves hundreds of years ago. Wake up America. Stop catering to the blacks, who in case you haven't noticed, hold alot more sway in America than anyone cares to admit.
No apologies here.
Submitted on September 14th, 2008 by AnonymousIt was the dutch who began the slave trade. It was the Africans who were easy prey. Americans should be shamed that their ancensters purchased and owned slaves. That being said, this is 2008, look at America and look at Africa. I would say African Americans should be thanking America that they get to live in this country.
Of course we should apologize
Submitted on August 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousWe should apologize for slavery, right after we give the native americans their country back. And we should apologize to the French,Mexicans,Spaniards,the British,the Japanese, Germans et al who we kept from taking control of the US. Slavery happened, it ended. Get over it. This touchy feely apologist state we have become is exactly what will lead us to be conquered in the end.
Why apologize for something I didn't do?
Submitted on August 1st, 2008 by AnonymousMany non-blacks assert that they shouldn't apologize for something they didn't do. There is logic to that thinking: if you didn't own slaves or enable others to own slaves, you aren't culpable. But the U.S. didn't do a very good job of converting its former slaves to full-fledged citizens. Slavery gave way to Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, redlining and educational and job discrimination. Although illegal now, these tools perpetuated a racial hierarchy that affects every American today, no matter how subtly. Just compare any rates of achievement, poverty, imprisonment by race; blacks are nowhere closing to catching up.
Apology Accepted!!!
Submitted on August 1st, 2008 by AnonymousYes, Black Americans are due an apology, at the least, and they got one. On Tuesday, July 29, 2008 the U.S. House issued a formal apology to Black Americans for years of slavery and injustices. No, blacks don't expect everyone to apologize, nor should everyone apologize, however, the American government allowed for hundreds of years of murder, mistreatment, and injustice towards the black community. Let's face it, being white can entitle you to certain priviledges, and most will never understand what it is like to walk in a black person's shoes. I've heard the phrase "get over it" in response to slavery and the mistreatment of blacks too many times. How can we as a community "get over" something or move past it when we are confronted with daily prejudices that's rooted in slavery.
read up
Submitted on April 28th, 2008 by AnonymousWhen u get a chance go to www.Harriet Jacobs.com read the book life as a slave girl. You will feel the pain of what slavery did to thousands and thousands of blacks that work this so called land of american. Not in africa in america.The pain of slavery is over yes but pain is pass down through generation to generation. 1. Jim Crow 2. KKK 3. The Police 4.YOU. So yes slavery was bad because we still have the benefits from it have you ever looked at an african american and thought good thoughts about them or whats the first thing that comes to your mind. We all suffer from the institution of slavery in 2008. Who whould you hire first that black or that white who?
Not an issue anymore
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by AnonymousI'm not sure what the point would be. Slavery in America is no longer an issue. Don't we have bigger problems right now? I want the human species to evolve and people want to drag us back to the dark ages. Let's move on people; always remember the lessons of history and MOVE ON.
Apologize?
Submitted on April 20th, 2008 by AnonymousWhat a foolish question. If you can find anyone left alive who owned slaves, feel free to ask them to apologize to any former slave that "they owned". Are we to be held accountable for all of our ancestors sins. Why stop with slavery? Why not track down the ancestors of every criminal who got away with murder, rape, theft etc? How will an apology help anyone alive today? Are we as a culture so caught up in our emotions that an apology from the government or a specific group of people is going to ease some unspecified burden? I don't think so. Apologies from institutions or groups are a hollow apology and have no power to heal. The people who committed the sin and the ones who were sinned upon are long since dead. Let them lie in peace. Lets move on
So What?
Submitted on April 20th, 2008 by AnonymousOK, so what that blacks sold other blacks. It doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that there was a supply and infrastructure to support it ready and available in the US. Slavery was even written into the Constitution as part of the Connecticut Compromise.
Slavery is a sin of our past, and it is obviously affecting our present, whether we like it or not. The mass ghetto-fication of the urban areas did not happen because blacks are inherently bad at living in cities, but because people in academia decided that there should be a new housing code in the 1920's that makes housing values drop due to "ethnic diversity." In addition, slavery did not end in 1864 - it ended with the abolition of the Jim Crow laws that came with a finally righted Supreme Court.
Do you know why? Because groups like the ACLU did not back off of the subject.
What is an apology?
Submitted on April 20th, 2008 by AnonymousIsn't an apology the realizing and admitting of a mistake, and if possible, repairing it?
The United States has made slavery illegal and instituted several anti-discriminatory laws. That sounds like "oops, let me fix that" to me.
Asking every citizen of the United States to apologise for something that most of their ancestors didn't do seems a bit petty.
Forgetting is not an option, but hanging on to this anger is not the best way to go either.
Very important point that I'm not sure anyone mentioned
Submitted on April 20th, 2008 by AnonymousThe reason the question is even a viable question is the fact that this was a state sanctioned institution. If it truly was just individuals enslaving other individuals, then the No side is %100 correct, "Get over it, I had nothing to do with it" is irrefutably the most prudent of all responses. The problem is that this was the legalistic government/state-sanctioned oppression of an entire people group. That means that by being a member of this organization known as the USA, we all involuntarily cosigned on it. I think the presumption people are making is that this is a finger being pointed at white people, so, naturally whites get defensive(just as blacks would under similar circumstances). The truth, however, is that this is a finger being pointed at the nation, the USA.
Don't apologize, but don't forget either
Submitted on April 18th, 2008 by lysanderThere's no point to apologizing for slavery. All that matters is that we remember it. After all, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
Point that finger back west
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by JoelRight. Since they were brought here as slaves, I guess Americans had to keep using them as slaves -- after all, they were slaves.
I get your point: The sin of slavery wasn't limited to America. That doesn't diminish our nation's culpability, and it's certainly not a lesser sin just because other people were involved.
point that finger east!
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by Anonymousto the middle east. America did not go get Africans and enslave them... we bought them and used them. Bad enough yes. But if you want someone to apologize for the slavery of the Africans, go ask the Muslims. They started and propagated the slave trade. Harrumph!
invent slavery/america
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by larmcgee_19oh,yell my friend america must earn-up to the cruity of slavery that she is responsiable for and the times she allowed the suffering go on without bring closer to the beast that profit and jim crowed their way to weath and muder on a group of people that only had the american government and those of the cloth to intervined. those of you that say america owes no apologize are among the gulity that contenue to stand-up for this wrong againts humanty. i realy don't beleive any of you good or bad mouth white fokes to get-it anyway base on your pass practise with humanty. and befor i go try to understand that all people was slaves at the hand of someone in history and the most brutal form of slavery was practice in america. hey just look around the world and view the mass this world is in today and at the hands of who????
Groups like the ACLU and the
Submitted on April 16th, 2008 by AnonymousGroups like the ACLU and the various out-spoken camps need to hush up. Slavery is done -it's expounded to the point of teary-eyed boredom in schools too- and existing racial tensions are only worsened by various groups claiming that they are oppressed. Time can only heal our wounds if we don't keep going back and picking them open at every available opportunity.
Slavery In America
Submitted on April 16th, 2008 by AnonymousAmerica cannot be judged by customs, mores of other nations, peoples, etc. We had a constitution which guaranteed freedom for all people. Blacks who sold slaves to America should not be credited with introducing slavery to America>>Our constitution, our moral fabric forbid it>>There were god-fearing whites in those days who saw the evil in it>>Some were afraid to speak out for fear of ostracism or death>>Our national government sanctioned it by its silence on the issue. After slaverey was outlawed in this country, in came the Jim Crow laws derived from the american majority race which continues in some form or another until this day>>How would you know<<>>Ask you brother!!
...not quite
Submitted on April 16th, 2008 by AnonymousActually, the indigenous peoples of the continent we now know as Africa were separate tribes and viewed themselves as ethnically different from members of groups not of their own. They did enslave members of other tribes and groups and initially, Europeans had no access to the interior of the continent and were able to get slaves only with the help of an indigenous slave trader. The slave trade throughout Africa, Europe, the Middle East and Asia existed long before the Transatlantic Slave Trade. Europeans, who founded the colonies and subsequent countries in the Americas neither started slavery nor caused it, but they did propagate it. In the European colonies that would eventually become the United States of America, it was maintained in a particularly harsh way where inferiority and second class citizenship or low class/slave status was strictly based on skin color and institutionalized. So, you are absolutely incorrect when you say "america" started it but the United States did maintain a system already in place and struggled to adapt and faught tooth and nail to maintain that system of subjugation when that system was deconstructed after the Civil War, especially in the South.
Apoloigize???
Submitted on April 16th, 2008 by AnonymousApoloigize for what? Slavery existed long before there was an America. Thousands of years, even. If anything, America should be credited with ending slavery, in the western hemisphere.
catch up on history
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by AnonymousBlacks did start enslaving themselves.
In Africa they would take the strongest of the men from tribes and sell them to different tribes or countries. So yes you could say African Americans did start it and we kept it going.
I'm not saying it is right.
I'm just saying that we weren't the one's with the original idea.
Actually Africans did
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by AnonymousActually Africans did enslave themselves. I believe the number is about 50%-60% of the African slaves that we enslaved were done so with the help of fellow tribesman. They would sell out their neighbors for money or the assurance their family wouldn't get taken. So yes....they did enslave themselves.
WELL PUT....
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by AnonymousWELL PUT....
you really should have taken
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by Anonymousyou really should have taken the time to read the ridicoulous remark. how could you blame africans, they didnt enslave themselves they were forced to it wasnt like they had an option it was either help capture your people for slavery or become a slave dont get it twisted. you wrote a lot of nonsense and you really need to pick up a book no slavery was not started in america but in a land who claims to be the great protector who runs to the aid of all others in need it took a long time from slavery to jim crow laws for them to get it right.
before you make such a
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by Anonymousbefore you make such a statement regading jewish people and blacks the cases were totally different slavery happened in america and no black person was ever compensated for it the holocaust happened in germany and yet the american government felt necessary to compensate their survivors. blacks dont use slavery as a crutch and racism is still very much alive. Now the people who hate black people simply because the color of their skin no longer wear white sheets, they were coporate outfits.
before you make such a
Submitted on April 15th, 2008 by Anonymousbefore you make such a statement regading jewish people and blacks the cases were totally different slavery happened in america and no black person was ever compensated for it the holocaust happened in germany and yet the american government felt necessary to compensate their survivors. blacks dont use slavery as a crutch and racism is still very much alive. Now the people who hate black people simply because the color of their skin no longer wear white sheets, they were coporate outfits.
America Didn't invent slavery
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousNo, America did not invent slavery, however, we did participate in it. We participated in an action that killed millions of people as well as tortured them. No, most people today do not have a direct connection with slavery, but it is still apart of our past just as much as Columbus finding America is part of our past. Usually you apologize for something that you are sorry you did, and if you are not sorry about slavery than I don't know what to tell you.
America didn't invent slavery
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousThis issue is usually talked about as if slavery got its start in America, when any educated person understands that slavery has existed throughout human history. It's not about black and white people, either--historically, every race has been involved on both sides.
"White people" are cast today as villains in the story of American slavery (even though blacks had slaves, as did Indians and others), but if you look at the big picture, it was white Christians of European descent who finally took the steps to end slavery in the modern world.
That said, none of us alive today had anything to do with slavery, one way or another.
the truth is we are all slaves in the USA today! wake up sheep!!
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousYeah um the Federal reserve has made slaves of us all you morons! Maybe you should teach yourself some truth and go watch Arron Russo's movie America freedom to fascism. Oh and don't forget about the military industrial complex we have been irreversibly turned into in the past 20 years. 9/11 changed some laws you may or may not know about yet.
[---]
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousI am NOT racist at all, but I'm really starting to get fed up with blacks using the fact that their great, grandfather was enslaved in this country as a crutch. If a black man and a white man have the same skills and apply for the same job, and the white guy wins, it's automatically racism. Yes slavery was horrible, yes I am ashamed that our nation has such atrocities in it's past, but we have reconciled, we have said we're sorry. No, something like slavery cannot ever be fully repaid, but for blacks, they seem to think that their ancestor's suffering entitles them to preferential treatment. The Jewish people were hunted and murdered in massive numbers in one of the greatest horrors humanity has yet to produce. But they do not sit around and complain about what happened, they don't bring up the holocaust in order to gain sympathy.
I'm deaf
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by AnonymousWhen I hear about slavery I go deaf. I am not prejudice. I know so many people of so many ethnic types and persuations. I am an artist (Photographer, musician) and truly appreciate people for who they are, color or ethnicity is irrelevant. Unfortunately there are black leaders that like to see this issue on the front burner because it gives them relevance and cash. I wouldn't know how the slave issue is even an issue. I thought it was resolved with the civil war. Are there still animosities?? I think that when somebody runs around saying "You owe me money" but the argument as to who owes and why becomes more abstract with each passing day, it becomes apparent that it is a scam and a money grab. Didn't Rodney King say "Can't we all get along?"
Soooo
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by AnonymousThat is just plain stupid. You go to school to learn a trade or skill or science that is MARKETABLE. In otherwords, you are becoming your own brand! Then someone else, I'm sorry, the EVIL CORPORATION says "OK, I need that. And I'll compensate you $XX,XXX.XX per year/week/month to use what you provide. Then you get excited because you landed a job and you celebrate with your friends and you become a consumer and spend lots of money on food,clothes,cars, I-pods, etc.. Then, after you get tired of being a grown up, you revert back to childhood when a teacher/parent steps in and says "I'm sorry, we all need to have the same of everything so it's fair". The truth is, it's not fair. If you are overproductive and good at what you do, the union you belong to will prevent you from being compensated at a higher rate than anyone else is because they are busy guaranteeing the slug that sits next to you,sucking up all your oxygen, gets paid the same as you. If you decide to take risk, because you are unique, you can lose big, but when it works out right, you can WIN BIG and become a corporate megabillionaire too. The moral of the story is; If you don't like helping the corporate megabillionaires make money, quit and become your own C.M.. If not, be thankful that on a smaller scale you have something you do that earns an income and has some security (After all if you are a C.M. you don't want to stop being one. And you will work hard to stay a C.M. that employs people)
A good thing.
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by AnonymousIt's not about if I or my ancestors participated in slavery. We as a country at one time partook in slavery and proffered of it's atrocities. Any nation that has done the same should, as a country formally state their regret that such a thing was a part of their history.
It's a statement of who we are today as a people. If we can't make it than perhaps we haven't come far enough just yet.
Very true
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by AnonymousI was going to post that historically slave owning nations should also apologize for slavery, oh wait that was all of Europe, Asia and Africa.... We were one (relatively small) country out of the hundreds that were slave owning during that era let alone recorded history.
However, I've never considered the fact that no one points their finger at the African nations that sold the slaves. Great point!
answer
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousWhy do this issue have to be a black or white thing? shake your tree and im sure a black will fall out. Slavery is wrong no matter who did it. American slavery broke up family took you from your country. And now your outside god's grace. Africans did'nt come to this country speaking english. There is a pamlet that you should read how to keep your N**** a good worker for over 400 years,it still works until this day. Its like training them like a horse. im sure shaka wasn't handing out information on how to train another human. there was war's but africans stayed in africa. which he was from the region of south africa. slaves was stolen from west africa. not one slave came to america from from there. and villiages stayed with villiages your americans split up family sold your mom your dad your child. they didnt hang beat rape work them from sun up to sun down with only a rest on sundays
I'll apologize if Ghana does
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousWhy is the united states the only nation who seems to have been responsible for this apparently universal evil? What about the africans who are still in Africa?
How do these people think that MILLIONS of Africans were captured and forced into slavery? Do they really think that boat loads of white europeans came over and went stomping all over the veldt with butterfly nets? Africans who were taken as slaves were captured by other africans and sold by other africans.
Yeah, I know, Alex Haley kind of glossed over that little factoid didn't he. Ever hear of the Zulu or the Watusi? How do you think they founded their bad-ass empires? They did it by conquering territory and then cleansing it of people who were not Zulus or Watusi, i.e. selling into slavery those lucky enough not to be slaughtered outright. Ever hear of the "Well of Tears? Do you know who it belonged to? It belonged to the father of Shaka Zulu, and in time to Shaka Zulu himself. The same Shaka Zulu who modern african americans like to get weepy over when remembering their august heritage. Seems slavery was the easiest answer to hanging on to conquered territory. Not to mention being pretty lucrative.
Now I've asked alot of questions here, but my real queston is this:
If I have somehow inherited the guilt my ancestors accrued from being evil slave owners, then why hasn't most of africa inherited the guilt their ancestors accrued from being evil slave merchants? Why don't african americans seek reparations from Nigeria, and Ghana and Sierra Leone (aside from the obvious reason, blood from a stone and what not)? Why are americans who bought slaves branded eternally with the mark of Satan, but africans who captured and sold their own people into slavery were probably just victims themselves? Why is that?
America's Biggest Sin
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousI apologize on an almost daily basis silently to myself and to anyone that will listen that slavery existed in this land. Most of the people who live in the US came here because they wanted to. Blacks, for the most part, are here because they were brought here as slaves. We are paying the price of this sin through crime and social blight. I'm sure the black folks wish they had never been brought here and wish they were still in mother Africa. Actually, that's a good question. To my Black brothers and sisters, do you wish that slavery never happened and you were still in Africa drinking out of a plastic rain barrel and cutting off arms, or are you grateful to your ancestors who had to suffer slavery so that you can now live here? If my ancestors were forced here, I think I would do everything I could to go back.
ridiculous
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousThe question itself is stupid (as are both the answers). The united States did not invent slavery, and we were the second or third country on earth to abolish it completely. Every civilization on the face of the earth prior to the industrial revolution was founded and owed it's daily existence to the institution of slavery. Let me say that again. Every civilization, everywhere on earth, at any point in time you'd care to choose, prior to the 1820s AD, was based upon and relied upon the exploitation of indentured human labor. Every one. This attitude that slavery was an american evil just baffles me. What do you think the term "peasant" referred to in europe?
How about the word "serf", or "peon"?
Slave, slave, and slave! The ugly truth is that prior to the clever invention of all these machines to do work faster and better than a man could do it himself, probably about 98 percent of the people on earth, at any given time, were slaves of one kind or another! Why should the United States have to apologize for that? I, personaly, am descended mainly from russian stock, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any grand dukes in the old family tree. That means my ancestors were "serfs", or "slaves", yet no one seems to think that Russia owes me an apology (or any reparations, mores the pity). Slavery is not the evil that haunts america, racism is, and if you think that slavery is a prerequisite for racism, you should take a trip, and see some more of the world. Racism is everywhere, even, believe it or not, in countries where slave status was not a question of race. Racism is not a result of slavery, racism is a result of the importance our monkey brains attach to the differences our little monkey eyes see in the people around us. If you're an African American and you just need to hear someone apologize, then apologize yourself. Apologize to your children for teaching them that their slave heritage is some dark nasty thing that someone needs to be sorry for, and start telling them the truth:
This country was built by slaves, just like every country before it, and that this country those slaves built was instrumental in bringing about the changes in human society that made slavery itself obsolete. Thats something to be proud of, not ashamed about. And stop wrapping your slave heritage around yourselves like it's some cloak of rightousness, because it's really nothin' special. We are all descended from slaves. Period! Every one of us.
I'm tired of people minimizing American History...
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousThe 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution provided an untold amount of rights that millions of European immigrants enjoyed, while African Americans had to wait a hundred years to be welcomed as full fledge citizens. In addition the Civil Rights Acts of the 60s provided rights to all subsequent Americans, not just African Americans. Women of European descent gained significant social gains in our economy. Also, slave trade provided the United States economy with a significant competitive advantage economically provided to the economic elite to invest in the Industrial Revolution. So I would hardly call the opinions of African Americans "marginal", "radical", or “divisive”.
I would like to recommend two articles for further research on the Reverend Wright “issue”:
"Uh-Obama: Racism, White Voters and the Myth of Color-Blindness"-By Tim Wise: http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/Obam...
“The Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright and the Audacity of Truth” By Dr. Wilmer J. Leon III: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032208...
Agreed
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousAgreed
How many times do we need to
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousHow many times do we need to say we are sorry? The only way to clear it all up is to start all over. So, anyone born during that era would need to die. Go ahead. Die. Then we can start all over.
And, not for nothing, but why would anyone who was not born during that era need to be apologized to? I dont remember hanging or beating anyone. Why should I say im sorry?
Soooo..... Sacrificing your
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousSoooo.....
Sacrificing your family and freedom to work 80 hours a week fattening the coffers of corporate megabillionaires isn't a form of slavery?
The end of this cycle of greed and servitude will only come when the system completely collapses - making the apology, or lack thereof, a pretty moot point.
This Question is Stupid
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousAmerica didn't start slavery. Not to mention the justifications for saying yes or no are stupid as well. "No, I didn't have anything to do with it." I'm sure that everybody who answers no to this question is saying that because they didn't have anything to do with it. This is seriously stupid.
Other Countries
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousIf America came out and apologized (reparations, etc.) then that means that people think this was an isolated incident. Almost every great civilization ever relied on slavery. The Romans, who were the greatest civilization ever, had an entire empire built around the need for slavery. This isn't only America's sin.
Thank you!!!
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousAmen brother. Finally, someone with enough knowledge about the subject to make a intelligent reference to the question. I thank you for your honesty and intellectual aptitude.
No Brazil Should
Submitted on April 11th, 2008 by AnonymousWhoever wrote this question obviously knows nothing of New World slavery.
And how pray does a country apologize? Cus last time I checked many of it's citizens have apologized on many occasions.
If you meant "should the United States pay the ancestors of former slaves reparations." Then say that instead. And furthermore if reparations money was to be paid to their ancestors then I believe the same day they should end Equal Opportunity Employment.
joel
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by AnonymousThanks alot for explaining to that kind person what that flag really stands for and the meaning behind such a racist symbol. Once again thanks
a reply to the person regarding the flag with the X
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by AnonymousYou said go back to were we come from on the jet or how ever we got here. If we leave so should you. But where would you go your a person with out a country to run to. america does not I repeat does not belong to you. this native american land not yours. Thats why there called Native Americans. So you should pack now and go and take your flag with you, we dont care what you do with it.But I can give you some kind advice on what you can use it for.
Lets see (1)to dry your car off with (2)to sweep your house or tralier? (3)as a fishing pole. (4)to but your garbage in.(5)u can put it on the side of your glasses while you ride your 10 spend bike. so you should't have a problem with your flag it's very useful. you cant claim a land that was stoleing from another race of people. and then tell another person to leave. more advice when your done reading this try orbits or cheap tickets most likely thats what you'll need. And put your pretty little flag in your lap on the plain so you can have it for the things I gave you advice on, Have a safe an long trip good bye :)
check your history book
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by Anonymouscheck your history book there was more to it than just keeping black people as slaves to do "our" work
Re: The flag
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by JoelNothing wrong, of course, except that it was a flag created more or less to defend the right of Confederate states to keep black people in involuntary servitude.
But that's a pretty big wrong.
theere is NOTHING wrong with
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by Anonymoustheere is NOTHING wrong with that Confederate Flag and I am well proud of it and proud to be a part of this great nation. no one makes you stay here. if you don't like it pack up and move out. the border is open and jets fly everyday. if you don't like it here, leave.
how right you are. the
Submitted on April 10th, 2008 by Anonymoushow right you are. the american indian was treated the worst of any that have lived in this country since the white man took over.
heal from the pain
Submitted on April 9th, 2008 by AnonymousYes we have been throught pain of another race in are life,or are parents lives. But what we need to do is learn and grow from it. And never let history repeat it self, So what we should do is get know people that are diffrent from us. And worry about the future and not the past. whats done is done I am a (african american women) who would love to have people of all race be friends of mine, without holding any judgement towards one another, you'll love me just as I would love you, thats when the healing begins when you can look at me as a human instead of my skin, tell me how can we do that. lets erase what are father and grandfather have installed in are minds about another human a race of people that you might feel is under you, when we die im sure god is not putting us in diffrents levels because of are color. We are as one we are judge for are works on earth, So please lets just stop the hatered. look its silly to judge someone based on there color we are humans.yes mistakes have been made but as of now lets enjoy the life that was giveing to us, Just tell me how we can heal now.. thats what we should be writeing about. tell me when can we be friends or when can I call you my family and im yours. Yes slavery was wrong alot of humans was sold just like animals. point that was a lesson learned that it would never ever happen again open are hearts and are minds lets not expect american to say sorry for anything thats the nature of this country, its up to us to change are views towards one another so tell me how can we do that. when can I invite you over for dinner and you do the same because of friendship, lets stop the hatered and love
Original sin?
Submitted on April 8th, 2008 by AnonymousHas everyone forgotten about the mass genocides we committed to the Native Americans. History is bloody and messed up. It was just ignorance. Im convinced any other country in our position would have done it. As long as we don't repeat history again GET OVER IT!
Just stop bickering
Submitted on April 8th, 2008 by AnonymousAll I know is that being a white guy, I'm apparently not allowed to try to solve the race problem in America, since I'm part of the institutional problem, no matter what I do. Instead why don't we work together to fight the poverty problem in America, and the crime problem, the prison system, the list goes on. There are plenty of problems in America that we all can get behind to try to fix. And I think that fighting these battles will help show the light to how we can end whats left of our racist history.
Slavery
Submitted on April 7th, 2008 by AnonymousMy dad's side of the family goes all the way back to the American indians.They were here before anyone else.Have checked my mom's side of the family and none of her ancestor's had slaves of any kind ever.IF my ancestor's had been a part of black/white slavery,I know that I would feel bad about it,but since my ancestor's had no part in it and because I have never been biased towards anyone of any color,then I shouldn't be held responsible.I want to go forward in time NOT backwords.
Your post was mostly helpful
Submitted on April 6th, 2008 by AnonymousYour post was mostly helpful and insightful till you said this:
I must point out that this thread is indeed about reparations and apologies! Go back to the very beginning question to see it for yourself.
And as far as minds changing, FIRST check your own for honesty. Are you fully looking in the mirror of reality? Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, some of the problems besetting your own group could be self inflicted?
Are you also ready to admit that racism cuts BOTH ways? Could it be that continual talk of victimhood has engendered an inbred racism against the perceived "oppressors"?
IF you already have, and are secure enough to own up to your own groups failings, then let's get talking!
And speaking of "feeble little minds" THAT kind of invective just about invalidates anything constructive you may have said on the subject.
Also, you indirectly you bring up another subject...the "You can't understand the black mind" argument implies that the Black man can perfectly understand the white man's mind. In other words: moral superiority by reason of victimhood!
No, the average nonwhite cannot understand the white any more than is the case in reverse. What it DOES take, though, is for all parties to drop preconceived ideas about the other before they attempt a dialog.
Try dropping your"feeble little mind" rhetoric and just communicate honestly, take responsibility for your own actions and don't wait for someone else to bail you out when you make a mistake.
THAT advice applies to ALL...no matter the color of skin!
Otherwise, GREAT post!
bobbym in socal
no apologies required
Submitted on April 6th, 2008 by AnonymousSlavery is a very sensitive subject and I am not sure you have the full grasp of what it means. This is not about racism, as you stated, no, it is deeper than that. First of all, the civil war was not about slavery. It was about the south wanting to break from the north and be a seperate nation. The freeing of the slaves was only a strategy used by the north to weaken the south. So,forgive me if I sound rude, but, your ancestors deaths were not caused because they wanted to free the slaves. The real issue with slavery is actually the fact that the average white person here in America, can pretty much trace their roots without a problem. They know where they came from and if they wanted could have the names and biography of the ancestors they lost in the civil war, ther war of 1812, american revolution, and the list goes on to across the pond. However, a person who is black in America, would have a harder time creating that family tree. Ask yourself why for a minute. Slavery took these people from their heritage, culture, and way of life, and forced them to submit to the will of a "master" who looked at them as no more (and in some cases, less) than the cattle in the field. The "hurt" blacks feel is the "hurt" brought upon them as the result of freedom. Life did not magically become easy because they were freed, it actually worsened. The quality of life got worse for the newly "freed" black. Most was the result of generations of conditioning by their white "masters". Not really known to most people, is the degree of conditioning that took place in the realm of slavery and its lingering effects. The black man is constantly having to prove he is a man. The black woman is always trying to protect the male black. She stands by him and hovers over him. This is all a mental state and prohibits growth in the black american. They are cursed by the freedom, granted in haste, an afterthought, if you will. The black male continues to suffer, yes, 200 years later, he suffers. No, it is not directly your fault or the fault of your friend, but think also about the years of struggle for the black man just to be considered human in America. Think of the terroristic attacks by ku klux klan and other terrorist groups against the freedom of the blacks. Think of the years of being told they could not vote or make the same wage as a real "man". Not that they were not qualified or could not speak the language, but because they were black and were only suited to picking cotton and doing the bidding of the white man. They did not get the equal opportunities granted to aliens coming into the united states today, who pretty much fresh off the boat can get loans and start businesses lucrative enough to afford the "American Dream". No, the black man, though born and raised in America, is always trying to fit in society. Today, hatred and discrimination, toward the black man, comes not only from whites, but from the very people who could be in some way related, the native African. They look at the American black not as a relative, but as a lower species of man, just like everyone else. It is not easy to be a black in America. The struggle continues daily. It definitely was not settled with the civil war. That war only started the struggle to be treated equally. Then after the law recognized the black man as an equal, another struggle started to be seen as an equal. That war continues to this day. So, bottom line do we need an apology from a white man to feel better about ourselves as Black people, no. I would not take one if it was offered. The thing we need you all do not have the capacity in your feeble little minds to understand or even care about. To top it all off you all would not know how to give it to us. Your minds have to change. The way you think about a any person, let alone a black one, has to change. Instead of focusing on race, know that every person you see is nothing more than another human being, thats all. So, save all your debates about apologies and reparations. Everyone knows that in order to make ammends, one must first feel they have done something wrong. You, personally, may have done nothing wrong, but that does not excuse the fact that all those years ago, a large group of people were taken against their will and forced to change their whole way of life to suite the satisfaction of a man they did not know and lose their value as a human being with free will to choose whose rules they will follow. It also does nothing to suffice the longing of a people to feel adequate and accepted by the country they helped to build. By the way, some of those union solders were black as well. So, apology not required. Thanks and God bless.
slavery
Submitted on April 5th, 2008 by AnonymousI just want to agree with you. Iam white I have ancestors that fought and died to free slaves. Iam not seeking a thank-you,and have nothing to apologize for
Apology
Submitted on April 5th, 2008 by chief28.retI agree with the last poster, that apologies are only effective for the one who has been offended. No one in America today was a direct victim of slavery and no one in America today was a slave owner, therefore, no one DESERVES an apology from anyone.
I was taught that the apology for slavery was when the good guys won and slavery was abolished. Wasn't the blood shed to ensure an end to slavery enough of an apology?
This is not a racism issue, as much as most would like to continue the argument. It is a matter of moral accountability, and again, our country settled that argument long ago. I detest racism as an evil cancer that still permeates our country. But this issue is not about race any more..we settled that 150 years ago.
Apology? Why not! Reparations? Never!
Submitted on April 5th, 2008 by AnonymousAn Apology by the government, whether State or Federal, costs nothing but a bit of pride and a compromise of principals. It may hurt a little, and it MAY make a few feel better about the country in which they are voting citizens, but the benefit will only last for one generation.
What then, when succeeding generations want their own apology? Will we be harangued into one more apology, an endless racial "dance of the macabre", an endless "Groundhog Day" experience? Apologies are only effective for the ones to whom it was issued.
As far as reparations are concerned: what should be done? Should we shell out money to ALL African Americans? Do people realize that African immigration in the past 50 years has outnumbered the total number of Africans enslaved before the 1860's? Will they inadvertently benefit as well?
Should we restrict it to only those who can prove that they are ancestors to slaves? What about the fact that insufficient records exist to effectively address the issue? What then?
As an American whose ancestors worked as maids, tavern workers, cops and local politicos at the beginning of the 20th century I have a suggestion: Why not ensure a place for every African American in the public college or University of their choice along with a stipend for living expenses for two or three generations say, for 50 years or so? That would be more than ANY other group has ever received from the government.
With out of wedlock births at 48% and with over 25% of young males incarcerated for drug and violent offenses, what better method than education to help change a mindset and identification with the same as "African American culture".
But just to hand out cash?NEVER
! That course has never been successful, and never will!Bobbym in Socal
slavery
Submitted on April 5th, 2008 by tomcatin4uIm sick of hearing people crieing over this.Get over it allready.I have some Cherokee blood in my veins and alot of them were flat out slaughtered.Forced to give up their way of life an their land.We say that when saddam took kuwait to get out.But refuse to give back the land to its rightful owners the AMERICAN INDIAN.
No apologies for historical mistakes
Submitted on April 4th, 2008 by AnonymousSlavery was and is not limited to our country alone. Many countries, tribes, classes and races throughout history have used slavery at some point, even exploiting their own races. It's rediculous to expect modern society to make amends and apologize for something that happened in the past. All can only look to the future to better themselves and ensure that it doesn't happen again to themselves or anyone else. To add to that, I also think that affirmative action is no longer necessary. By having this we are still fueling some discrimination and racism. If all are now created equal, may the most qualified person succeed. Regardless of the past history of slavery and adversity, self motivated people who don't pass blame and accept responsibility for their own actions and futures are those who succeed and are happy knowing that they did their best as an American to persue their dream.
My family came here some time ago, but none were involved with what had happened in the past. I'm white, but my entire family is a mixture of Japanese, Eqyptian, Norwegian, Czech, Irish and Native American. One race was a conqueror, one was prone to endentured servitude, and three have been slaves at some point in history. Nobody asked for an apology, they just did their best to overcome and push their future generations to accept history for what it is, history, good and bad.
apologize for slavery?
Submitted on April 3rd, 2008 by AnonymousIt is ridiculus to think that an apology to people who had nothing to do with being slaves, by people who had nothing to do with having slaves, would fix anything. Oh, maybe it would pacify the few that think slavery had something to do with thier way of life in the US now, but eventully we would be apologizing to another group who feel the same way further down the road. I beleive the thousands of Americans who fought to end slavery, thousands who died, have done an awful lot of apologizing. What some people may have done at one time or another should not be the burden of the many, however many years later. We are all accountable for our individaul actions not the actions of anyone from another time or era. It is now the 21st century, and we as humans have been through a lot of wars, slavery, major disasters etc. We need to focus on the future, all of us, for our own individual selfs. For the record, another individual mentioned earlier, that it was the Africans who sold other Africans to the Eoropeans, who then transported an sold those slaves to the different trading spots all through the Atalantic. It was those same Africans for Centuries before that had always had slaves. The Egyptians for example used slaves to build the Pyramids and many other things since. Al Sharpton likes to point out that it was blacks that had the edge on whites in many intelectual areas, he forgets to add that it was the blacks that created slavery in the first place.
Apologize to the Irish, all poor, women, Gypsies, Chinese, et al
Submitted on April 3rd, 2008 by AnonymousThe ancestors of modern blacks sold others into slavery. Will modern blacks apologize and pay reparations to each other to right the wrongs committed by their ancestors?
It turns my stomach that the "not in our name" bunch (if I may paint with a broad brush) would concede guilt on my behalf for something my ancestors didn't even help with. They were too busy starving in Ireland at the time. But I expect my big check from England any day now for forcing my family to leave Ireland. Then it's the sweet life for me!
How about this instead: We hire a medium to channel some dead slave owners, and Joel can convince Colonel Sartoris of his sins, and maybe he'll apologize.
While we're at it, when are Joel's Mennonite friends (see his bio) going to pay the Jews for WWII? It makes as much sense; the Mennonites were long gone from Germany by the time that happened, but they WERE German, just like I'm white, but my people weren't even in this country yet.
Slavery
Submitted on April 3rd, 2008 by AnonymousI think slavery was a terrible part of our society in year past. But, I don't have any guilt about being a white man in the US today. My father came over from Czechoslovakia and I had nothing to do with it. I think blacks have been treated terribly in our history, but I did not enslave them, they were sold to slavers by their own black brothers who to this day have slaves and sell slaves. I have been to Kinshasha and other parts of the Congo. If I was a black guy I think I'd rather be in the US than living the way 98% of the African do!
On comment monitoring
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by BenWe've talked about that, Evan. We talk about it every day. Comments that are nothing more than name-calling get taken down. But we're not going to get into the business of pulling comments for spelling and grammar, tempting though that might be. We are, to some extent, trying to take a light hand here.
We want users like you to play a role, too. Ultimately the success or failure of the site depends on the tone we set. And for egregious cases, there is a way for readers to report objectionable content. Finally, I would encourage anyone reading this to take a look at the "about us" page. It explains clearly what we're trying to achieve here.
But let me just reiterate that we're all in favor of spirited discussions here. We can disagree. Joel and I disagree all the time. But we don't call each other names or ascribing bad faith or foul motives to one another. It's neither useful nor persuasive.
Re: a nasty subject
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by Evan McLarenAgreed. The almost uniformly low quality of the comments on this poll make me wonder if the moderators might not assume some sort of comment monitoring responsibility. The intelligent expressions that were made here were immediately drowned out by illiterate rantings.
Re: a nasty subject
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by BenI cannot let this pass: "while reading these (comments) I came to realize that things will never change just the merchandise. this is a bad subject to talk about all these anonymous (commenters) with a cold and evil heart not towards slavery it self but towards human rights..."
Slavery remains an emotional issue. Maybe that's an understatement. When Joel and I raised the topic, I honestly didn't expect it would generate so much passion and such intensity. I knew people would have an opinion, but not quite so visceral.
I don't like some of the comments we've seen on this thread over the past few days. A lot of heat, not so much light -- and often contrary to the spirit of this Web site.
That said, I disagree strongly that "things will never change." Things have changed. The United States of 2008 is a much different place than the United States of 1988 or '68 or '48. The laws are different. Popular culture is much, much different. The blatant racism of a George Wallace is simply not acceptable today. Even Wallace changed his outlook, for goodness sake!
So why are people so hung up on this slavery apology? In part, I think, because people are tired of being blamed for a crime they had no part of. Collective guilt in a nation founded on individual rights? Not likely. Acknowledging a history of injustice and the struggle to correct those injustices is well and good. But when does it end? Slavery ended nearly 150 years ago. At what point do we throw off the shackles on our minds?
a nasty subject
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by Anonymouswhile reading these blogs I came to realize that things will never change just the merchandse.this is a bad subject to talk about all these anonymous blogers with a cold and evil heart not towards slavery it self but towards human rights,im not asking for you to say your sorry because your rite u didn't cause the pain of so many blacks back in those days,but the way u think is just like those who inslave,what has change? we have to heal and stop hateing each other. but the way u think is sad,if u only understood black skin and what we have to deal with the racism from whites in 2008 while u enjoy your pail skin.the reason y I call u sad is because what u say u will never say in public but u can type it in the privacy of your own home,but im glad to know how the other race really feels behind close doors.stop fakeing with us be u.stop acting like your really are friends,as long as your up front about the way u feel then I know to stay away from u,stop tanning your skin and getting lip injects to look other than what you are be white hate be afraid just be you. and as far as blacks being racist thats a hard one to swallow,when your the one who causes so much pain.you judge without getting to know its got to be a hard life for you,but don't say sorry to me or my race just say sorry for being you,But I cant say all whites are bad there is a few good one's out there,but there are alot of them who spoils it for the one's that are good,lets just enjoy life get to know one another so we can speak on the human race instead of speaking on the black race.and keep the mule
Umm... yea... it was wrong.... and?
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousYes, slavery is wrong, it's a horrible thing to do to someone, deny them their right to their own life. But what does this have to do with today? People talk about social repercussions and the hatred that has come from it, but why should I be blamed for what my ancestors did? In my opinion, to be a good person in general is not hard. All it takes is a little thought. Why do you have the right to take another's life? Because his father hurt yours twenty years ago? Hatred only breeds more hatred, vengeance will come back to haunt you. This I know from personal experience. The point I'm trying to make is this: Why is it that people want me and my peers to apologize for something that happened to their ancestors centuries ago? No one has a right to what I earn by my hand, and I have no right to what anyone else earned. These are the beliefs that lead to appreciating hard work, and respecting everything others have. If you want an apology for what people with the same color skin as me did almost 200 years ago, go raise the dead and ask them for your apology... you won't get one from me.
Really?
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousWhy should America have to apologize for slavery when there are millions of African Americans here in the first place. They're going to apologize to themselves for their distant relatives using slaves? We Caucasians can't help that our ancestors put yours in crappy little shacks and made them work. That isn't our fault. That makes no sense. I'm not gonna apologize to people who aren't even alive anymore for them being made slaves.
Quit being stupid. We don't need to apologize to you. That was a long time ago. Live in the now. Get your head out of your ass and realize that you're the racist ones. The NAACP? Only for African Americans (or colored persons if you want to get technical). I'm white. So I can't join. I feel like the subject of racism now. Thanks.
Slavery is for the states, not the nation
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousIn a nutshell, slavery in any form is bad. American slavery of black Africans was particularly awful, and the stigma still hangs around today in the form of habitual racism and mistrust from both sides of the issue (just read this post to get armloads of examples).
However, it is not for the United States as a nation to apologize for slavery, since the United States as a nation didn't condone slavery. It was up to the individual state to make that decision, and while many states latched on to it, just as many states abhorred the notion. Just like the Red/Blue split we have today, Americans were of two completely different minds about crucial social issues even back then.
Now, several states, including Florida, have made official apologies. I fully support the idea that the rest of the states who participated in the gross act of slavery should be encouraged to issue their own apologies as well. However, the United States as a nation has ALREADY issued its own formal apology with the Emancipation Proclamation and by saying to the slave states, "Hey, we realize that individual states should have a basic number of state's rights, but dude, humans should have rights as well, and slavery is just freakin' wrong."
Apparently, this has not really eliminated racial tension, however. I know firsthand, because I come from an embarrassingly racist family in Louisiana. I love my parents, but they are particularly benighted when it comes to issues of basic human rights, and I have unhappily had to distance myself from them because of that. The problem is, a little education would go so far to help their understanding and tolerance, but education is so undervalued in this country that it is a struggle just to get our children to graduate with basic math and language skills, to say nothing of a grasp of the implications of complex social dynamics.
The point is, no amount of apology is ever going to accomplish anything as long as America not only tolerates but pretty much encourages ignorance among its citizens, because apologies are just words--they aren't really actions; and we all can agree that actions speak louder. Education is the key to understanding and tolerance, and it should be the focus of any and all American initiatives. Everything else is dependent on it, and would then fall into place.
Thoughtful, but please think further...
Submitted on April 2nd, 2008 by AnonymousYour response is honest and refreshing, but I do not think it is wise to say "get over it" to a group of people that this most recent violation of human rights has affected.
Much of the criminal activity you note in the Black community is due to a culture that has been passed down from African American slavery. Victor Hugo stated: "if you call a man 'bad' long enough, he will fulfill your prophecy."
It is also inarguable that many White families prospered because of systematic racism and human rights violations in this country. We also know that many Whites' ancestors immigrated to this country AFTER slavery, AFTER the civil rights movement (ongoing), and have family members that had to endure discrimination and injustice also.
I don't understand the logic, however, of telling people that other people have suffered as well, therefore the suffering, and contributing factors, will not be addressed. This seems to be willful ignorance.
If this were a non-issue, we would not see so many defensive and angry responses when this topic is explored.
As a side note, reperations were promised, and are in order, but not in monetary form. Education is key.
Really now...
Submitted on April 1st, 2008 by AnonymousI know your (great) grandparents were promised reparations and I can see where having the government just hand you forty acres would be nice. But what are you going to do with a mule. Do you really want it? I say the time has come to give up the fight for the mule.
That is all.
Some white guy.
racism
Submitted on April 1st, 2008 by AnonymousI am a person as u say with African blood and I would never get on my knees and thank the white man for bringing me or my ancisters to america everyday african american deals with racism. youll never know because you never have to be reminded that your black.america was built on blood. black peoples blood and we are still waiting for are forthy acres and a mule.america or white pepole was wrong for this country that they stold from native americans. but at least they get a check each month.what do we get for the work that are family has put in.we dont even own the white house that african slaves built.and another thing I am light skinned black so that means that someone down in my blood line was rape by some white person. there is alot that america should apoligies for because white people are still rich due to slavery.while so many blacks are suffering. so i guess i should get on my knees even though how we got here begin with a crime. so u should get on your knees if someone kills,rape,hang,beat,inslave,starve your family think about it
Slaves Prior to Black...
Submitted on April 1st, 2008 by AnonymousYes, but if you look at slavery in these cultures you will find them to be entirely different facts from the African slave trade. Two thirds of the captured slaves died in transportation alone. The conscious splitting of families and tribes; the squashing of native tongue and history; and, in the vast majority of cases, the lack of opportunity for the slave to earn their freedom by labor. All of these define the African slave trade as different from those historical examples cited.
As far as "we didn't start it." That to is willfully ignorant of the fact that the colonization of the New World would not have succeeded without slaves.