American law has for more than 30 years adhered to an eye-for-an-eye legal standard for capital punishment: Only murderers could be executed. But that may be about to change. The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday (April 16) heard the case of a Louisiana man facing the death penalty for brutally raping his 8-year-old stepdaughter.
Supporters of the penalty say Patrick Kennedy's crime was so heinous that death is the only appropriate punishment. But opponents say an execution might make victims more reluctant to report the crime -- or motivate rapists to kill their victims. Should the death penalty be extended to child rapists? Ben Boychuk and Joel Mathis, the moderators of RedBlueAmerica.com, weigh in.
Ben Boychuk
The question before the Supreme Court is whether the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition of Cruel and Unusual Punishment lets a state execute child rapists and, if so, whether Louisiana’s capital rape law is narrowly tailored to pass constitutional muster. The question is not whether a victim or a victim’s family wants the perpetrator to die or to spend the rest of his life in jail. Nor is the question whether such laws create more victims.
Those are public policy questions best decided by elected officials, not unelected judges. The Louisiana legislature, in its wisdom, decided to extend the death penalty to monsters that rape helpless little girls. Society, by and large, understands that some crimes are so heinous that the only just punishment is death.
But the Supreme Court has established a murky precedent whereby a state’s death penalty law must be weighed against “evolving standards of decency.”
The court also ruled in 1977 that the death penalty was excessive for the rape of an adult woman, but not for all rapes. So the High Court has an opportunity here to clean up some cloudy jurisprudence and ensure justice is done. A monster like Patrick Kennedy can’t get the needle soon enough.
Joel Mathis
If anybody deserves the death penalty, Patrick Kennedy does.
There is no penalty too great for the person who sexually abuses a child, particularly when that person is a relative charged with keeping the child safe. In such cases, it's difficult to say that any punishment would be "cruel or unusual." But that doesn't make it a good idea to execute Kennedy.
Sexual crimes very often go unreported. That's because the victim often knows the assailant and either fears him (the perpetrator is almost always male) or is confused about what happened. Many victims go years, decades or lifetimes suffering in silence. And experts on sexual violence worry that allowing the death penalty for child rape would either make victims more hesitant to report the abuse, or encourage rapists to kill their victims in order to hide their crimes.
A coalition of groups against sexual violence has made this case to the Supreme Court, writing: "By magnifying the possible effects of a report of child rape, the Louisiana statute will likely ensure that fewer victims are identified and receive treatment -- and that fewer abusers are stopped from continuing to abuse their victims and from victimizing even more children."
We should be tough on child rapists. They deserve no better. But we shouldn't be so tough that we inadvertently create more victims.
Thoughts
What about those who were
Submitted on May 1st, 2008 by PabloWhat about those who were railroaded?
Man serving life in prison was released today after serving 26 years of his life sentence.
They found that he was not guilty and that an error happened. DNA proved he was not guilty.
Its not so open and shut. But I have a less tolerance to murderers. Those who kill have no compunction to do any crime lower than Murder. In fact, most murderers do murder so that they can continue to do other vile crimes.
Its possible to treat some people for mental illness or other related issues.
So I am not as blood thirsty as some here because I understand the ramifications of the choices people make.
As I pointed out, under even your definition, a poor 16 year old boy who had sex with his 14 year old girl friend can be put to death.
Its all based on current laws and current legal definitions. So when you say Child rapist be put to death, then it applies where you do not want it to.
43 states give that child rape is defined as a one who had sex under the age of 15. Meaning that under the age of 15 its automatically rape.
the other 7 states are even more restrictive in that the age of rape of a child can be as old as 17. Meaning that 17 and under is a child as defined in that state.
I am thinking of my son who is currently 7. When he gets to be 13 to 16 years old he will get interested in girls. Should he make the mistake and not listen to me and my wife in not having sex as a teen could spend decades or life in prison depending on how the laws define the crime.
If the parents of the girl want blood its possible like the example I gave of having a 16 year old boy be charged and then later convicted of child rape of his girl friend and high school sweet heart.
Its the realities of the times we live in. The problem in America is that Governments have gotten to big and to powerful to the point that they have to control and define everything.
The old laws from 1950 was ok. Under that old law the 16 year old could be charged with Statutory rape and the Judge could decide if it warranted severe punishment or even if it needed to be tried in court. Thus the maximum then was 30 years or no jail time at all.
Now, the laws are in place that are not flexible and have set jail times for certain defined crimes. Thus the 16 year old because he had sex with this girl friend will be in jail for a minimum of 25 years or see parole in 15.
Sad but the truth of the times we live in.
Extended life?
Submitted on April 29th, 2008 by CashMoneyI think that anyone that's in prison for life should be executed the day they are commited. We are paying taxes for people to live that are just being tortured by the torment of being in a cell the size of a small bathroom for 23 hours a day. They never see society again. If I was in prison for life, I would either kill myself or ask to be executed the day I was committed. I wouldn't want an honest man/woman that works day in and day out pay to support my failures. I believe that they shouldn't get to live and think of ways of how they could've done better or worse in the situation. Expecially not for child rapists.
Be careful what you wish for
Submitted on April 25th, 2008 by PabloConcerning this specific case with this individual, I am not for the death penalty but I am for Life without parole.
But this has sparked a larger question being played out. That all child rapist should be put to death or in prisoned for life.
This goes beyond assumed labled. As my previous example of the 16 year old boy and a 14 year old girl. The boy by the cries of those who want death would put this 16 year old on death Row!
The problem everyone misses is that when you make a law, the law is never as flexable as it needs to be or as strict as it needs to be unless the law makes it so.
Thus if a rape happens like in the example, life in prison is the proper punishment.
Murder is the only valid justifable call for the death penalty.
Yet we have litterally hundreds of thousands who comitted murder yet did their time and are out of jail! Yet people are so blood thirsty as to call for a rapist who did not murder to be put to death. There are those who killed as many as 12 people who are out of jail after serving 40 years in prison.
Are we so far out of touch with reality to clammor for blood of people who did not murder?
Rape of chidren is one of the most vile crimes. I agree with this. However, not all cases are like this one. Sometimes the case is just dispicable but the realities is that the child was not harmed drastically enough to call for the death penalty.
The current polygamy issue in Texas is a valid point. As vile and as dispicable as this case is. And as much as those men and women allow for young girls as young as 9 to be married off to men between the ages of 25 and 75, the culture of this group made this a kind of normal acceptance of those poor victims.
Its vile and dispicable but the children know nothing else and the environment promotes its it openly and in some cases that have happened in Mexico and Arizona the older women encourge and are the instigators of the child rape in manners that is to discusting to discuss here.
However, death penalty should be reserved only for Murderers.
Some of these cases just does not fit the general outline. What about them.
What about guys who have been in a distorted relationship all their lives and thus emotionally care more connected to children and then display that connection in a way that is not correct and would be defined as rape.
Its those that can be redirected to a more proper relationship by certain methods which I will not discuss because it would cause some to have a moral outcry even though it does not break any laws once so ever.
I ask all to consider the realities of what laws do. Yes even my moral outrage wants its piece of flesh for the crimes done. However, I pull back at blindly calling for the death penalty for any child rapist because like the example I gave, the 16 year old is convicted of child rape would be put to death even if that so called rape victim was his 14 year old girlfriend. This is something that people over look. It is considered under the law that the older or more agressive or the one in charge commited the rape and it will always be defined as rape when you are dealing with a minor under the age of consent. And child rape is defined in 43 states as a minor under the age of 15. The rest is either 16 or 17.
So be careful what you wish for. Because your own child while out on a date and has their hormones raging could be charged and convicted as a child rapist and then put to death.
Its not a misdirected age issue but the definitions of laws already on the books. So be very careful what you wish for.
Lastly, Sexual addiction can be treated. The problem is that there is no funding for this from the government or private charity. Those who have been rehabilatated were able to do so with the help of rich family members who paid for literally years of therapy as well as ongoing checkups and evaluations.
These people need to be treated like any common MHMR person and be given the same kind of effort to help them. Will there be those that can not be helped? Sure. But there will be those that can be helped. The numbers will look just like those with other addictions like alcoholism and drug addictions.
The difference is in monitoring and job assistance. Most child rapists according to a couple done is that the offender is normally in a high stress environment and is suffering from an emotional deficiency combined with being unemployed or employment which is at the lowest ecconomic scale.
Thus treatment is the best tool while having these offenders have jobs where they work the swing or nigh shift prevent them from acting out. Why? they are working at the time when most children are the most at risk.
Death for child rapists?
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by LCCranstonWhile I would like to support those who argue long and hard for mercy, rehabilitation, and redemption, I cannot. I finally have reached the point where I no longer can tolerate such individuals in society, there is too much risk involved in allowing a child rapist to capitalize on an "evolving standard of decency. Who are we kidding? These are very dangerous individuals who lack any conscience or sense of morality. Anyone who is willing to even think about trying to rehabilitate such individuals is either naive or stupid. The problem with the death penalty is that the system is still quite dysfunctional in dealing with such cases...they go on forever at enormous public cost. Let's cut to the chase. As a creative solution, convict the child rapist, send him/her to a maximum penal institution (where the extreme deviants are incarcerated), put him/her in among the general population, look the other way, and the "problem" will be solved rather quickly.
LCCranston (Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men..The Shadow knows)
Punishment Fits the Crime
Submitted on April 21st, 2008 by milehi5ohJustible states that it's not only males affected by what that others call a "disease".
Pablo states that some pedophiles can be rehabilitated from this awful disease and it is implied that Pablo knows some personally. I'm glad to hear that they make the choice to stay away from schools and functions that involve children, much like an alcoholic chooses to stay away from bars.
It is also true that there are idiot cases being brought before the court trying to punish two consenting teenagers that share sexual thoughts or have sex and then labeling them as sexual offenders.
But let's stay on focus here. This topic was about a child rape, not a bogus sexual offender. Attached is link to the court documents:
http://www.lasc.org/opinions/2007/05ka19...
This is an "evil" person, who should be properly punished. Is death the answer? I could say yes. But does it fit the crime? I would say no. Mainly because the "satisfaction" of the crime commited was not death, but it is not unlike that of a serial killer when they kill.
Castration is the best punishment. Depriving a violent sexual offender of the one thing they get satisfaction out of.
Women, generally, are not "violent" sexual offenders like the Brett Brents, Patrick Kennedy, etc. Execution would save State and Federal funds from having to house, feed, educate and "rehabilitate" these "evil" people. But cutting it off seems so much more prudent.
Constitute's a child?
Submitted on April 19th, 2008 by AnonymousAny human being from infancy to age 18. If the harmed individual is mentally impaired, handicapped. I feel they would also qualify as a child. We have to protect the vulnerable in our society. These sub-human predators need incarceration for life!
Child Rape
Submitted on April 19th, 2008 by AnonymousAnyone guilty of raping a child should spend the rest of their life in prison. It is a fact they cannot be rehabilitated. We see repeated offenses that escalate often to murder. There should not be a second chance. Judges who put these predators back on the street must be held accountable, and lose their jobs!
Only males?
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by justibleGiven the number of high profile molestations by female teachers in recent years, I'm a little surprised at both of your repeated and exclusive use of "he" to describe the perpetrator.
But since such crimes inspire only yuks on Jay Leno (can you imagine if a comedian suggested a young female was a lucky victim because her attacker was so darn hot?), I cannot be surprised. And thus I'm skeptical that "evolving standards" will ever execute a woman for child rape. No, for those comic relief rapists, we let them out in five years to marry their deluded victims. But I am fairly convinced that "evolving standards" would soon include adult female victims. This whole mess smacks of the misguided hate crimes laws that have so damaged the ethical aspect of law.
I guess it comes down to the fact that these young victims do still retain their lives and have a hope of a future which may someday not involve therapy. They have suffered, and many if not all, will always suffer from the abuse. But they do remain alive. Heck, I'm uncomfortable with a wholesale adherence to the Old Testament dictum of an "eye for an eye"; clearly I cannot endorse going beyond that already serious prescription. In short,the State should never engage in executions of criminals who have not caused death (so I guess I'd leave the door open for pursuing the death penalty for a perpetrator who drives a child to suicide by repeated and unreported violence).
What would constitute a child?
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by The Big KlosowskiWould it be an age issue, or a mental capacity issue? How would this affect mentally handicapped individuals who function at the level of a four or five year old child? Or is that too far of a stretch?
Sticky issue
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by PabloFirst I am against preditors.
However, there are people in jail under the title of pedophiles that are not really pedophiles.
Example: 16 year old boy dating a 14 year old girl and as teens go suddenly the boy is charged with Rape, Stautory Rape and because he and his girl friend exchanged some photo graphs that were revealing he was charged with pedophilia.
Also, I know of a couple of pedophiles that have been redeemed. The issue is their choice to make the effort to change. Just as any addiction is hard to break, it can be overcome.
So if you say pedophiles can not change then you are saying that those who are addicted to Alcohol or Drugs also can not change and can not be redeemed.
Of the two I know of, they are watched! They have asked the people around them to watch them! They go out of their way not to live or go to any fuctions where they have contact with children where they may be unobserved.
Another is issue is redirection of the desire. People seem to not understand the illeness of this addiction. The director for the pannel for the government who oversees and makes policy for pedophilia is a homosexual who is also a pedophile yet never been charged. His last paper he asked that homosexual pedophiles be allowed into the homes to be a role model for the child.
Think about that for a moment! Allowing a child preditor into your home to molest your child! Not acceptable! yes this guy who is a PHD from San Fransico promote this view and is in charge of policy concerning this issue.
Never mind that homosexuals represent the majority of pedophiles in this nation. They just never make the news because the picture of a 50 year old man with a 8 year old girl is more shocking than a man with boy where the age difference on average is in the early 20s and the vicims is on average 14.
So its not about who is homosexual or not. Its about addiction. Sexual addiction is the most difficult to treat and recover from. But it can happen. The majority could have their desires redirected but that also raises another set of moral issues.
But I for one hate the true preditor who actively hunts children and kidnaps them. They are the ones that need life in prison. Should they kill then the death penalty.
But for those that look at pictures but never acted on the impulse, they can be redeemed and for the most part be redirected to a more appropreate relationship.
The problem is that there is 4 kinds of Pedophilia in the world yet no one cares what the differences are. A lable in this arena is enough for people to think of the most worst ideas and apply thoughts and ideas that may not even be remotely related.
So for me there is hope for some and for others their choice is either life in prison or the death penalty.
But remeber there is many out there who are improperly labled like the example I gave. How can a 16 year old who was dating a 14 year really be a pedophile? Sometimes the law is just not adequate and other times too strict.
Death-penalty for Child rapists
Submitted on April 17th, 2008 by janmbDoes castration work ? Will it stop this conduct.
Otherwise, It is a mental illness so a death penalty will not be allowed. However those who are pedophiles should never be free again because it is known that the compulsive disorder cannot be cured.