redblueamerica.com

circus paper plates
e gold program
girl painted gold
http://hardline.hostevo.com/gold9f4.html sword silver nude
http://hardline.webng.com/car868.html mens necklace fashion
http://hardline.seitenclique.net/goldbff... roosevelt gold standard

for now.

"make me an instrument of your will" on one side of the coin sounds nice, on the other it is unsettling -

"I will stand with them ..."
http://www.americanconservativedaily.com...

Perhaps it was God's Will that moved the Obama forked tongue to the 57 state gaffe ? Atheists might call it a Freudian slip.

It is far more a matter of trust than religion ... no forum, no spin, no makeover will do for me.

Publicly elevating a spiritual influence would indeed submit that person/denomination/theology to scrutiny.

Senator Obama's handling of this issue has hurt him in the campaign, whereas I haven't given it much thought with McCain due to the publicity.

In Obama's defense, I think he had to do something to counter the Muslim charge. It didn't turn out well, but he still may become President.

the religious banter. On this forum we have been split like the Red Sea and always come back together.

A person's worldview is shaped by their faith (wherever it is placed). The worldview shapes the way they view all that has been and make decisions based on what they think will be. Perplexing in the Bush Administration, but that's another subject.

Point being a person's decisions, policy, is inseparable from the person. While I agree it is not customary for a President to use church doctrine to make decisions, we don't have a theocracy, it is a part of the Pres.

What do you mean by this?
"What is not ok is to say that the pastor of that church has my ear and is the judge of my morals and keeps me grounded in what is right and wrong with society."

Isn't the pastor supposed to communicate Biblical truth and help you apply it to your life? By elevating scriptural truth the pastor is elevating a inspired words, not his/her own. Thus, "judging" and "keeping you grounded" doesn't come from the messenger, but the message. correct?

There is a fine line. Some Politician know were it is most do not.

The truth is that its ok to say I believe in God and have faith.

What is bad is using that faith as the marker or standard as the only standard which all policy is made.

Its ok for a politician to say I am a christian and that I attend a Baptist, Church of Christ or Nondenominational church.

What is not ok is to say that the pastor of that church has my ear and is the judge of my morals and keeps me grounded in what is right and wrong with society.

That is what Obama did. This is the reason why the Rev Wright issue will not go away. Because Obama placed the good Rev Wright as a man who would have white house access and would effect policy because Obama said he would have that effect.

Thus when it came out that Rev Wright is antiAmerican and a promoter of Black theology with a high racist spin to crush the whities of this country then yea it is an issue.

Its ok for a politician to say he is a man of faith. He just can not say that he uses that faith or that church is the standard or basis for making policy. Even when its true that it would be the case. Its idiocy and self destructive to say it.

"It is much easier to play the role of one of gods followers, then to actually apply what GOD really has in mind for GODS' children"

I agree. Walking the walk is the most difficult. Much easier to say "I'm a Christian" in a survey, than actually follow New Testament teachings.

Politicians are in a no-win situation with faith. Acting from faith - their judgment is questioned; invisible man in the sky, unfit for office (Huckabee). Acting according to secular SOP- abandoning faith, no integrity, hypocrite.

Tough business.

your right its overly biased and leaves way way too much out of the mormon history which is extremely ugly especially in the Brigham Young era.

It totally ignores the fact that Mormons had a group of men known as the "keepers of the faith"

They murdered several christian wagon trains and robbed countless others. Also anyone who was registered as a mormon but decided to leave the mormon faith would be hunted down and shot.
This is recorded when a keeper tracked a man from Salt Lake City to Denver and killed him. The Keeper was hung for muder in Colorado.

Most of the books in the last 20 years are poitically correct or are so neutral in language that you miss many of the issues. Its like asking someone to define the differences between Roman Catholic and Ukrainian Orthodox which is the older Orthodox commonly referred to in history as the Armenian Church Othodoxy.

It helps to have a brother who is a Dr. of Theology along with History with a disciplin in Religion effects on History

I know exactly what they are and what they promote.

There is three levels of Mormonism. The first level promotes Mormonism as equal with christianity and that everything they do conforms with the bible. This is the public form that most people see. Its also the primary form that their missionaries promote as they work to get people to read the book of Mormon and question their own beliefs that they have been taught or know.

The second level pushes the book of Mormon as having higher authority over the bible as the true message from God through J. Smith. This gets into more mystical stuff and into visions and other hocus pocus stuff that people have to take on faith because there is absolutely nothing to back it up with.

The highest level is the bizzaro level where only the highest are allowed into and are "guided into the heavenly realms". This is the elders realm. Here is where they promote male mormons who are faithful will become God. They will then be the new Adam of a new planet with all the eves that they have married on this earth or had spiritual marriages with along with others that will flock to them to populate the new planet that they will be God over.

But in a nut shell, Mormons believe that when they die all men who are good mormons will become God or equal to God and rule over their own new planet that they will populate with the females that Smith promises.

This idea is not new, its blending christianity with Islamic ideas of the Houri or the 72 virgins that are there for your pleasure. So no matter how many times you pluck the cherry it is there to be plucked again and again.

Purely nonsense and honestly not very pleasureable on the whole if you follow after fleshly forms. But then most Islamic teaching give that women are nothing and they are disallowed pleasure. Which honestly sucks because there is nothing better than being with a woman whom you know is pleasured well.

However, in the realm of politics, its just a distraction. Although I may know the differece between Islam, and Mormanism and christianity is really unimportant as to who is best to lead the country.

But if a candidate says my ideals are founded on certain ideals based on religion A as identified by Preacher B then its more than fair game to look at the candidate on what he bases his morality and ideals on.

In the case of Obama, Obama said he was a Christian as he was taught in Trnity Church by the Rev Wright who is not only his personal mentor but would be his white house moral, spiritual and community tie to keep him grounded.

Ok, So what kind of church is Trinity Church, and What kind of Pastor is Rev. Wright.

We know now that both are horrible and no way in any terms would be acceptable from a person running for Senate much less president should be associated with that trash and Racist antiAmerican filth.

But then the Candidate opens the door as Obama did, then it fair game to look closely and clearly as to what is the basis of morality and idealism that he is promoting as he Mr. Obama claims.

Thus Mr. Obama claim is racism, AntiAmericanism, antipatriot, elitism and promotion of extreme Marxism.
Only Mr. Obama can blame himself for those things which he said would define himself though his church and pastor.

I never said I would not vote for mormon. I was just giving reference why Romney was not popular in general because of his religion.

some people know the difference between mormanism and christianity however most do not.

So you have it becoming a polaizing item because people do not know but going off what they have heard other say who should know the difference.

I do prefer a true christian over other religions, but then its hard to find a candidate who is a true christian.

The reasoning of why religion is being evaluated in politics especially for the president is because religions define what kind of morals a person has and also defines the ideology that that person will have in perspective in dealing with other parts of the world mainly Israel and the middle east.

I personally do not care what church or religious background a candidate has. Although I prefer a true christian over others its more important to see if the candidate adheres to the core morality they profess when they proclaim the link as part of the reasonning for being a better candidate.

Honestly, Mormons have the highest morals of any religions in the US. But their Ideology is off the chart into the bizare and in other areas it promotes things which do not sit well with the core ideals of the Country as a whole. Does not make them bad people it just means that their religion promotes a type of society that may be extremely objectionable to the vast majority of people.

It has always been a bad idea for any politician to claim the religion high ground unless they are in a very run of the mill middle of the road christian church and have a reputation of being neutral in general. Only then do they excite the religious right and become a draw to the Chruch going Democrats who are most often catholic.

For Obama, his association with Trinity Church of Chicago will burn him badly because of the promotion of black theology, antiAmerican rants and pure racist hatred being the main topics of the sermons which goes against the core ideals of Christianity. Thus every time Obama tried to climb the high ground on religion, Rev Wright proves Obama is a liar and a person who does not promote or stand for core Christian ideals.

McCain is a typical Baptist church goer. Which is why the evangelicals do not get excited. Baptist are more than often so self absorbed with their own mini religious world that the forget that there are others out there.

Thus why McCain looks out of touch and uncomfortable in talking in a broad Christianity sense.

But between the two Candidates, McCain is by far the choice of Christians when they use religion as a basis for choice of their vote.

For myself, Obama is not a christian although he makes the claim. There are many others who made the claim of christianity who then turned out to be mass murderers, liars and false teachers and the like.

Because Obama can not seem to speak the truth 99% of the time and has refused to do core Christian things that any common Christian would happily do at anytime, then Obama just fails.

Thus Obama will try to make people think he is a better christian than what people think. But in the end, Obama will put his foot in his mouth once again and will prove once again in the end that he is not a true core Christian but a liar who calls himself a christian.

HOW?

Not all politicians are dissbelievers
And not all elected are politicians.
Honest one like soldier in a river,
He swims under fire of morticians,
God in heart and bulet in gutter.

He also could be a smart fighter,
With no God is his killing hands,
So is a honest elected - arguing,
Like politician on public demand.
John at times is just misspeling.

I can't say he never said a lie -
Like genetic human competition
In War and Politics, or secret by,
As most of Whites, in congruition.
But guided one by God or by a lie?

He must have some God in heart,
Not just War, part of wich is guts,
But stand on principals as knows,
Against party, if thinks he is right.
Davebama already wants us bow!

TO WHICH DEGREE?

Present power piramid is too tall.
It's unsertain at a top, it is why,
Last election is a dangerous hole
Forged by Quin lead by Russ-spies.
To wich degree McCain is involved?

To wich degree energy Rus blocade
Could be broken, if I would create?
Depend if USA and World that tooks
Usurping my destiny ready to repay
And will resist the godless shnooks.

TO WHAT ENDS?

Will McCain stand for Constitution
As Russ abolishing your Revolution
And saduced by them Quin agreed
Resettle US colony by Rus and Friz,
To what degree oposing evil dead?

I even do not question Obama way,
He is born to hide and trained to lie,
He'll porobably open gates and bay
For little Mukies and invading spies,
Like Russian Advisory mafia in USA.

To which Obama depends if a Casey
Is Jesuit from CIA, what is a shear
Of Obama his, what Russian proxies,
And to wich degree Jesuit and Quin,
Saduced, gave America to evil axis.

Konstantin.

I dont beleive either of them has a serious Relationship with God.

I also dont believe in mixing Religon an Poltics.

In doing so it could be dangerous for those who don't beleive as the Goverment Leader's Believe.

Take the Middle East for example the main relgion is Muslim, Christian's and Jew's are not allowed and at times pursicuted or even Killed. Arab controled areas anyway.

and probably bizarre on Saturday, and there will much discussion after the interviews spinning this and spinning that. Maybe Mr Obama has memorized the words of The Lord's Prayer by now ... he could impress the Christians by reciting it. I'll bet it does not compare to the muslim morning call to prayer to him.

McCain, who knows for sure where his heart is in the religious realm? But, he has the guts to go into an interview with a nut-case like Rick Warren when he has more to lose than Obama who for months lacks the guts to debate or even chance a cream puff like O'reilly.

I expect there will be a lot of religious back-and-forth throughout the remainder of the campaign. For myself, I will tune it out as pure bs spin. I believe in freedom of religion and reject the exploitation of religion in politics.