UFOs: Fact or Fiction or reality or hoax gone mad?
Posted 7 weeks 4 days ago byI have to say, that I have seen a UFO but not some space ship.
I have seen some things in the sky which I could not identify. That is a UFO. But, could I call it a space ship or alien? Nope!
I have seen all sorts of strange craft out in West Texas and Eastern New Mexico of the decades. The fly over of White Sands to Groom lake to JPL research makes it a very real possiblity that people in West Texas see lots of strange things in the sky.
I have seen unmaned drones before the military admitted it. I even have seen the test for the Mars explorer missions as they tested it out in White Sands. If anyone has ever traveled through that region from West Texas through New Mexico to get to El Paso or parts further west should know. I own property just North of White Sands. I have seen all sorts of very very strange stuff. Yet I know that all of it is our military working hard to prefect some new Technology.
Do I believe that UFOs exist? Yes I do. What do I base my information on? NASA
That's right NASA! If anyone has ever listened in on NASA radio or video feeds, its very clear that they are not alone up there. I have heard twice our astronaughts say that they see the aliens! Sometimes there is lots of talk other times they act like its no big deal.
But NASA has in its own open channels talked about aliens in Space with our people!
So for me, its time that the government come clean on what they know! Who knows, maybe I did see something but ignored it.
But NASA made it more than clear to me that UFOs or aliens in space are real. People really should pay closer attention to the space flights and to NASA radio. You may find it more than interesting.
Thoughts
Thanks
Submitted on July 24th, 2008 by rom12921I understand your view. Have you seen Skye's "Oh My" Blog, more on this type of thing
John
Submitted on July 23rd, 2008 by PabloI am not sure that would be beneficial at this time.
My understanding of biblical events is that they did occur.
But you also need to understand how the bible is constructed. The old testament is written in two ways.
The first is a generalized historical account. The second is by polical records.
Neither are going to be specic in details. However, the first historical accounts are more accurate as they just report it as it is. Where as the polical records may be exaggerated or only contain one point of view which may not be totally historically accurate to the event in question.
Thus one must know which is in play. Granted that all the events in the bible are true. Its just a matter of how its read and what can be learned from it.
Rom
Submitted on July 23rd, 2008 by PabloMy understanding is that ET did not sin and thus is not in sin thus not needing to have redemption.
However, Mankind did sin, has sin and is still sinning and is in need of redemption.
That because Mankind was given dominion over creation cause that creation to fall into decay. Decay means physical death.
Thus ET although did not sin is experiencing death. And this explains why creation is frustrated with man in the expectation of having man redeem creation from the decay of death.
Think of it this way. Man was given a house called creation which represents the universe.
Man then through sin gave the keys to the house to Satan. Satan is now trashing the house.
Man has to get the keys back from Satan through legal means which is through the redemptive process of salvation. Once Man gets the house back the house is fully redeemed from the destruction and decay caused by Satan.
Overyly simplified but makes it very clear.
viewpoint on Biblical events
Submitted on July 22nd, 2008 by rom12921babylon- From Genesis 11?, God causes the then people of the world to be unable to communicate in building the tower. People thus dispersed to different parts of the world in family (tribal) groups. Many of these people groups named lands after their ancestors. Since Noah's sons, grandsons and many great-grandsons names are known, ancient/tribal names for geographical areas provide an interesting study.
One example, Noah's g-son Gomer.Ezekiel locates the early descendants of Gomer, along with Togarmah (a son of Gomer), in the north quarters (Ezekiel 38:6). In modern Turkey is an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites.1
They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain. For many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day.
Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales. The Welsh historian, Davis, records a traditional Welsh belief that the descendants of Gomer ‘landed on the Isle of Britain from France, about three hundred years after the flood’.2 He also records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg.
Anyway, the Bible tells us divine intervention was the cause of the language barrier, but I speculate that frustration over the tower played a big role. I could see people thinking 'why are we doing this?' 'how does it help me and my family?'
This is already longer than intended, but hopefully gives some relevent proof that Biblical "stories" are often not as mysterious as people think, just mundane facts about people.
Thus Pablo
Submitted on July 22nd, 2008 by rom12921OK. Just making sure I understand.
ET effected by sin, but only mankind can be redeemed and ,by proxy, ET if existing. Is that right?
Thou use "thus" alot.
Interesting discussion
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by John 2000... that I am enjoying reading and thinking about. Much of what you are discussing regarding Romans is quite consistent with other ancient myths and cultural interpretations.
... I might be somewhat curious to hear either or both of your viewpoints regarding such biblical events such as babylon, sodom/gomorrah, red sea, the flood/ark etc much be in terms of miracle, science, God, ET might be.
Rom
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by PabloIf you go back to Romans 8:12-22 you will find it explained.
That the creation is actually waiting for the sons of God to redeem that which they subjected into bondage.
Thus all of creation is waiting for those who accept Christ and become joint heirs to be called children of God and sons of God.
Thus all creation including ET is waiting for Man to undo the bondage that they placed on themselves and upon all creation.
In other words, ET is frustrated because Mankind brough decay to the universe. Although creation is not in sin or in need of salvation as we understand it. What ET waits for is for those of mankind who will become glorified as sons of God to liberate the universe from the decay of man's original sin.
Because man was predestined to rule and rein with God thus all creation was under the subject of mankind. Thus when mankind sinned, it caused all of creations to be under the curse of decay. Thus ET has been waiting for Man to liberate the universe from the curse which Man put upon the universe.
Anyway, this is getting into deep theological arena. Its enough for me to know that ET can exist and that the bible will not fall because they are real or not.
Mans inhumanity - Spectator sport?
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by rom12921"Thus you cannot just assume that ET is exactly like us on Earth." I agree so I looked it up
Romans 8:20-22 (New Living Translation)
20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. 22 For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
So, you are correct we cannot assume ET has sinned, but we can see that "all creation" is subject to God's curse - sin and need redemption.
Like I said, I am OK with not knowing all the answers, but I think it wise to answer faith/ theological "...According to the bible and Torah..." as you suggest.
Rom
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by PabloA fundamental problem in your position.
1. ET as you put it may not need to be saved. ET could have remained pure or blameless where as Adam and Eve screwed up and sinned.
But then Satan was thrown to earth. Thus ETs do not have to deal with Satan and thus do not have the problems which Satan causes. Those things like the 10 commandments warns us humans not to do.
Thus you cannot just assume that ET is exactly like us on Earth. According to the bible and Torah, ETs do not have the trials and tribulations that we have on earth.
To an ET, the immorality, death, destruction and pure evil would be extremely alien to them.
I had a theologen tell me once that the real UFOs the aliens who come here do so to watch the struggle of good over evil. They have a ring side seat to see how GOD defeats Satan and how some men remain pure to God rather than follow after the temptations that Satan offers. After all, Satan is confined to the Earth as this is where he was cast down out of Heaven from.
Thus the main reasons why ET does not want to openly visit officially is because they are only here to watch the struggle of good over evil. They actually are watching God's justice and morality unfold.
They also get to see who it is that will rule over them after going through the amazing trials and tribulations. In other words, ET will know that those who will rule over them have proper experience in dealing with Godly issues.
But this is just one point of view. There are thousands of others. Yours is just as valid as long as you remain true to the facts laid out in the bible and the Torah. Remember that not all of the Torah was put into the bible. There are books which even Christ himself quoted from that was prevented from being in the bible. If Christ thought it right and good enough to quote scripture from that should have more than sealed that book as to its verification and approval.
But concerning UFOs, most meaning 95% are man made black projects or misidentified items from ballons, to birds, planes, to stars, the moon or other atmospheric conditions.
But then there is that 5%. Plus the videos from NASA as well as other recordings which openly talk about physical craft or aliens out right.
So to me when you have NASA and the astronaughts in Space saying that they are looking at the Aliens, then that should send up a red flag to all!
Is the world ready to know that we are not alone? Yea we are. But its more important in how the government comes clean.
The government can either cause mass panic or just make it the greatest event that was ever done.
But for me Aliens, are here to watch us Not to interact with us.
There is something Pablo
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by rom12921Not sure what you are referring, but there are a few problems with an intelligent E.T.
Sin... can E.T. be saved if not covered by the divine/human blood of Christ? If sin is symptomatic of all creation (Gen 3), then ET would be affected, but not redeemable as not covered by the blood.
Genesis...They want the forgiveness, redemption and salvation, but dismiss the reason for Christ. If Gen 3 does not occur; separating human nature (sin) from divine nature (God), then Jesus is not necessary. If you believe Gen 3, do you dismiss the rest?
Aliens are consistent with evolution. You would expect, given enough time and random mutations, life is possible elsewhere. This way of thinking rejects Genesis and ultimately makes a mockery of the faith.
Can you see why this is particulary difficult subject?
That being said, I really enjoy sci-fi, UFO stories and the like.
Without proof, then you must
Submitted on July 21st, 2008 by rom12921Without proof, then you must believe on faith?
Proof usually constitutes something I can use my senses to understand. If I cannot use my senses, then I must make some assumptions about evidence. This is very simple and straightforward.
Just because there are phenomenon that people experience and don't understand doesn't mean there are other beings from outside our solar system among us.
Maybe a press conference, newsletter, postcard from beyond. Interview with the alien leaders on Larry King. I think IF there are other beings they would send mechanized equipment first like we do to Mars to minimize risk
John 2000
Submitted on July 19th, 2008 by PabloProof by some is one thing proof to other is something else.
For some seeing is believing. Others need something they can feel and touch.
For me to put my name on it specifically, it would need to be both or a statement from the government to address already known video and tapes of NASA flights and other recording which talk about this issue as part of their normal missions.
But each person has their level of required proof.
What is your level?
Rom
Submitted on July 19th, 2008 by PabloThere is nothing in the bible which says that I can not believe in life elsewhere.
On the contrary, the bible may actually give me more of a reason to believe in aliens.
The main issue for me is the statement by God that as a person who is saved and given the title sons of God and will rule and rein with God.
Who exactly are we the sons of God to rein over? Not the angels as they are classified as servants of God not needing to be ruled over as angels have free will.
Thus who is it? Thus there has to be some life out there requiring to be ruled and reined over.
After all, you do not rule and rein over nothing!
There is plenty of evidence
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by John 2000and there have also been plenty of hoaxes.
What exactly would absolutely constitute proof to you?
Aware of the math
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by rom12921Unaware of any evidence.
BTW flat Earth was never widely believed. Usually used as a cliche insult aimed at people of faith, although not scripturally supported.
Duh! Earthboy
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by John 2000"Planets that at present host life number about 10 million in the Galaxy of 100 billion stars,"
from a mathematical estimate 24 years ago:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984JBIS.....
statistically:
even if I were Far more conservative and said 1 million recorded human history periods instead of 3 1/3 million, how many opportunities are there in 10**6 times 10**7 potential host planets? = 10**13! How may stars are in our galaxy, 10**10? That leaves a mathematical 1000 opportunities per star over a more conservatively stated set of parameters.
But, of course, we must be the most advanced. Many on earth believed the world to be flat just a half a blink of an eye ago.
Huh? (2)
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by rom12921Moses' burning Bush, Elijah, etc I get that part. Rest...?
Deny what, UFO's, extraterrestrials, beginning of the universe? What does time or human perception of time have to do with intelligent life elsewhere? What statistics are you referring?
The nature of my question is due to my interest in how Pablo would answer and what his thought process is.
The Bible
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by John 2000is replete with such references especially if you know how to openly interpret and read between the lines.
But I don't care to get into the plus and minuses of biblical and other historical references and rumors and debunkings because that just leads back into the infernal 'Evolution' vs 'Intelligent Design' and 'Religion' vs 'Science' rot.
To me, it is a Great Arrogance to deny under either primary belief system.
What is the so-called period of recorded (and retained) human history in current science relative to the most recent updates of the age of the universe, the galaxy, the solar system, and our dear planet? Being arbirary and setting 'human history' at 6000 years and universe at 20 billion years leaves us with a mere 3 1/3 million such brief periods in the seemingly vast time span. How many planets are in 'our' galaxy?
Even statistically, this is not an issue.
Huh?
Submitted on July 16th, 2008 by rom12921I find your belief in UFO's / extraterrestrial aliens perplexing.
I suspect you are a person of faith (Christian?), how do you reconcile your belief in God, and presunably his word, with the belief in aliens.