redblueamerica.com

John 2000

"Do you suspect foul play of this nature in the Texas instance?"

Yes I do, for one thing Texas CPS held several adult women who were pregnant and near term as under age despite their having birth certificates and drivers licenses which indicated they were adults essentially kidnapping them and their unborn children...

Only after the babies were born and taken from their mothers did CPS acknowledge they were adults...

They told the babies mothers they were free to go but their babies would be staying with CPS...

If they were doing this to protect the babys wouldn't they want to protect the mothers and the babys?

After all CPS says the mothers are victims too, and yet from everything I have read in many newspapers and seen on tv, CPS seems to consider the mothers disposable.

I firmly believe if it was not for all the media attention that they would never get their children back...

Another thing to think about is for years and years CPS in Texas and in every other state for that matter, has been saying they're underfunded and under staffed, yet they were able to mount a major operation / raid on the FLDS ranch?

It appears to me that they intended to take the children by what ever force necessary, even if it meant killing all the adults at the ranch.

If anything after what happened at Waco, Texas should know SWAT teams, tanks and children don't mix well..

As far as I can see Child Protective Services has almost unlimited power and wealth at their disposal...

Where CPS is concerned there are a lot of unanswered questions.

The Business of Child Stealing in Florida

http://www.nolanchart.com/article4132.ht...

American taxpayers fund a racket that wrenches the stomach. That is CPS. Some of those involved claim their are just following orders, others just pocket the bounty on children wrenched from their parent's arms.

Nuremberg answered the question of orders; profiting from human trafficking should be a capital offense.by Melinda Pillsbury-Foster
(Libertarian)
Saturday, June 28, 2008

Under 5 years, blond, blue-eyed - $6,000.00. a top of the line product

We are going to take you behind the lies into the ugly truth that is destroying families for profit every day, in every community across America. You won't want to believe it but when you see their faces, hear their voices, you will understand why this is happening and what it means to your own life, even if you don't have children.

The same system that views children as commodities to be sold also has plans for you. There is a solution and we will get to that.

The CPS steals children using the system paid for by citizens who believe it is being used to protect those in need. That is a fraud; the system actually pumps money into the personal accounts of all those involved in the system, converting children into cash while destroying them and their families. The number of children who emerge from the system, able to function normally, are near zero. Some are never seen again.

The system used includes three stages. The first phase is to shock and intimidate the parents into consenting to let their children be processed into the system. The second phase is to force parents, terrified for their children, to begin a process of 'case management.' That process is a template that is designed to push the parents into emotional meltdown and bankruptcy. The third phase is to sever the parental rights entirely and sell the children.

In the wake of this trauma families are atomized, destroyed. Parents and grandparents never again see the children who connect them to the future. Children lose their past and the anchoring each of us needs to develop into a healthy human being.

Those who carry the process through the stages are well compensated. Agents, Case workers, judges, physicians, clerks, and others expect and receive compensation for services often not even delivered. Compensation takes place through corporations. State employees who fail to take children out of homes are penalized; many of these leave the system which has been converted from a system originally intended to help families to one that profits those in control.

Across the country, CPS experienced high turn overs in case workers struggling under impossible work loads for many years. Good people, motivated to help struggling families were frustrated and unable to help; those are the kinds of caseworkers who simply quit. Cases of extreme abuse while children were in foster care were common. Nothing about the system gave cause for hope it was working.

http://www.liftingtheveil.org/turnover.h...

Then the picture changed. The idea that instead of providing services the system as a whole should move to the model of generating income took hold as the concept of privatization was widely adopted by government. Privatization, introduced during the Reagan Years, was pushed by think tanks that saw government, a corporation itself, as the logical partner for other large corporate interests. Children,

http://www.sp2.upenn.edu/crysp/reports/p...

roads,

http://www.texasturf.org/

military services, each of these and more were recalibrated to provide income to those in control. In this way, the problem with social services created an opening that in the late 1990s allowed the least ethical to profit from the pain of others.

PL 105-89 (HR 867), passed into law November 19, 1997, was intended to ensure that children who could not be reunited with their birth families could be placed in loving homes. But those entrusted to carry out the desperately needed changes found the measure enabled a very different agenda. CPS agents and caseworkers could be trained to look at their industry as a profit center. The system began to view children as product to be harvested and parents as barriers to be demolished.

The system became a template for kidnapping, carried out by barely educated caseworkers who were told that they made the law. This itself had become a tenet of belief held by those in power as the foundations of Constitutional law continued to be eroded by a judiciary who graduated from law school ignorant of America's foundational documents. The shift from Constitutional law to statute and whim of court, low-level government employee, and law enforcement is documented in "The Anti-Government Movement Guidebook," published by the National Center for State Courts in1999.

http://www.coppercards.com/law/docs/

The stage was set and the feeding frenzy was about to begin.

The process goes through three stages of slow death; ripped from their families the children are bewildered, afraid, vulnerable to the system. The process hinges on secrecy and an asserted immunity from accountability for all involved. Power, through the official but unacknowledged transfer from the Constitution to government by statute, code and whim, renders all of those outside government vulnerable. Caught in that process parents lose track of all the things that brought happiness and normality to their lives. Years later this will mark them. Most will never recover.

This is the story of three families. Each of their stories is still in motion because the pain never stops.

Stage One
http://www.mymanatee.org/

Manatee County, Florida has long made a business of stealing children. Families who settle there do not know that, however. They are attracted to the weather, the beauty of the area. If they knew they would never settle anyplace in Florida, which is arguably has the most corrupt CPS system in the nation. The County is run by a Board of Commissioners who meet at this well polished table.

http://www.mymanatee.org/

Children are a commodity for which there is a steady and growing market both in the United States and across the world. Child sex-slaves arrive in Europe and elsewhere from unspecified locations; children taken from homes routinely end up in the porn industry. It has been going on for many years but since it did not impact most of us it was easy to ignore. But as counties across the country have cycled down into bankruptcy the need to pump harder for every buck to be made has become more compelling. Today it is not just the most vulnerable who are targeted but families that would before have been passed over as too well connected. In Manatee County the pumping is in fast forward.

Monday, June 2nd 2008

The two young sons of the Roberts were dropped off at the home of their babysitter, Christina Holbrook, residence11534 57th Street Circle East, Parrish, Florida. Both parents work. Michelle and James Roberts are both veterans of the US Navy who met while in service to their country. Both came from families with long and honorable histories of serving in the military.

Their oldest son, had been disciplined by his father the day before for jumping up and down on his baby brother, a potentially life-threatening activity. Spanking was the kind of discipline James himself experienced as a child growing up in Tennessee. The spanking had left a slight bruise.

CPS arrived at the babysitter's home at 9:30am. They proceeded to strip the two boys and photograph them in the nude, questioning them for an hour. This was a bewildering and frightening experience for the boys.

The first James and Michelle heard of this was when Michelle received a phone call at 3:30pm from Alicia Habib. Habib presented herself as an agent for Child Protective Services, demanding that the couple present themselves for an 'interview'. No criminal complaint was presented. But the process of intimidation and fear was launched.

Here, Michelle and James find out, to their shock, that the kids have been stripped and photographed. Left feeling as if the ground had been cut out from under them they endured with shock the moment when the deputy sheriff read James his Miranda rights. He was not charged; no criminal complaint was served. Michelle is interviewed. They are given orders. Michelle is to be present when James saw their children. CPS is moving towards building paperwork to take the children away from their parents.

During the interview they were shown the photos taken of their naked children by the deputy. The children's faces were frozen in tears. He did not show them all the photos, keeping them under the paperwork. Michelle found his behavior intimidating. As the photos were shown he questioned her about their use of discipline.

Soon Michelle and James will realize that the CPS has no power unless they give it to them. CPS depends on the ignorance of ordinary people. The first phase had begun.

The system ground them out fine; dehumanizing them and working with fine-tuned intention to show them, by its actions, that they had no rights and no recourse. At the end of the week a hearing was set; they were now being launched into the second phase of the process that intended to wrest their children from them. But during those endless days they began to come out of the shock and consider their alternatives. They considered the Constitution and the rights they knew they had both sworn to defend as members of the armed forces of America.

Michelle loaded the two boys in their car and drove them hundreds of miles to the town where James had grown up. There, she left them with their great-grandparents. When you are seven months pregnant no long drive is comfortable, but for her children Michelle would risk anything.

In the car she prayed that she would not miscarry the baby held so close to her heart.

The two young parents are both veterans of the War in Iraq. Each had joined the Navy, after looking forward to serving their country from their early teems. She planned this as her career, since 7th Grade. He, since taking in ROTC in High School.

But they had joined a military that they believed cared for its own and kept its promises; after finding that their small son would be have to be left with someone else while both served in the war zone, they resigned. Their son, Lukas, was born the following October.

Now, they knew what the military is about. To them, they were just bodies to fill slots that civilians could fill at twice the pay. Never previously interested in politics they began to think about how the world was being run.

From the time you join you are told he is your commander and chief. She was not a Bush fan, but you cannot say it without fear of reprisal.

But Florida CPS was not finished with them. Although they did not know it, Habib stood to make nearly $10,000 as her bounty for taking the children, both very adoptable, from their home.

They never could have imagined that the elderly great-grand-parents would be threatened with arrest, but that is what happened. They began studying the Constitution; This, they knew was the real law in America. If they understood it they could use it.

Now they understand that they should never have talked to CPS. If they had not, CPS would have had to leave them alone. CPS uses fear and intimidation to force the appearance that there they have entered into a 'contract' with parents. But since a valid contract cannot exist without the elements of disclosure, consent, and equitable exchange this is a fraud. All parents get is bankruptcy, heartbreak, and too often death.

The Case Plan Ploy – Adam Umholtz

Adam comes from a family that lived in a log cabin in Pennsylvania. The cabin was 230 years old. Made of chestnut beams that are from a species that is not extinct the beams were hand hewed and rectangular and criss crossed. Adam's dad was a pastor for the Southern Home Mission Board. Adam's younger brother was born there, in the horseshoe shaped valley that was filled with berry bushes and food they grew themselves.

Adam went to school at the Advanced Training Institute of America, now the ATI. Now he is an entrepreneur, or was until his life and family was hijacked by the CPS. Adam's children were taken from him and his wife on Monday, July 28th, 2007. They were given a case plan that it was impossible to fulfill.

As part of the 72 goals laid out in the plan was one requirement that Adam attend a class for sexual offenders who had served time in prison. This was impossible for Adam to do. Adam is attending a study on successful parents and couples, a study in which he and his wife were invited to participate. Both parents are strong Christians who take their faith seriously. Neither parent has ever been to prison for any cause, much less a sexual offense. The charges were falsified made by a neighbor who was later charged with having committed a sexual offense themselves.

Adam cannot attend the classes available because he has never been to prison and has never been a sexual offender. He is not eligible for the class in any case. So the court told Adam to confess to a crime he did not commit to get his kids back. The court has an agenda. If Adam confesses they have a clear track for severing his parental rights. The lack of justice does not bother the court or the attorney who has urged him to confess to a crime he did not commit. They are all paid through the process that steals children for resale.

Parents are routinely told that to 'complete their case plan' they must fulfill requirements that force them to leave jobs that prevent them from attending classes scheduled from 9 – 5 on work days. They are told they cannot be self employed. Every possible block is put in their paths to complete a 'requirement' that is pointless in any case. The same pattern is reported by parents across the United States. Angelina Alexander, a parent in California was told she must quit her job as a taxi driver because she was self employed. Yet she had taken the job, the only one she could find, to fulfill the requirements to attend classes. In her case the report that took her small son from her home was from a former boyfriend who had never seen the child. Complaints that the charge was false were ignored as her processing continued.

Mainstream Americans are at risk today and have no idea what is coming. In Adam's case the CPS had targeted the kids because they were homeschooling and because they had building materials in the back yard. Then a malicious neighbor, made sexual allegations. The neighbor was later proven to have lied.

But the fact that all the 'charges' were illegal did not stop them from forcing you to undertake the 'Case Plan.' There were no charges but they had already taken their eight children out of the home. If the family had known they would have refused to talk to CPS.

Adam and his wife are now approaching bankruptcy although they are better off than many couples because at least they do not have to hide to keep the child still living with them. Most parents face the same problem. Attempts to fulfill the case plan make it impossible to earn a living or are impossible to fulfill. There are no charges. There have been no charges. There will be no charges. As with most couples, they force the father to leave so that they will have a clear shot at grabbing the children from the mother.

CPS has continuously made false allegations, added their youngest child, born after they took the original eight children, to the present case, and over and over ignored the orders of the court. One of their daughters in foster care is suffering from a wound on her foot, acquired in the foster home, for which she is receiving no treatment. The wound continues to fester and they can do nothing.

Although there are no charges Adam and his wife are allowed to see the kids only two hours a week with supervision. And the court continues to threaten to sever their parental rights. Adam does not intend to let that happen.

Adam and his wife are considering their options now that they understand the fraud that has been perpetrated. Those options are growing, along with their understanding of the Constitution and how the system in place has worked to negate their rights.

Phase Three – Severing Parental Rights

Greg Pound and his wife, Malissa, had their parental rights severed in November of 2007. The incident that brought CPS into their lives was a simple accident. A friend's dog visiting their home bit their baby. It could have happened to anyone; the dog's owner was desperately sorry, the dog had never harmed anyone before. Accidents happen. There was a time when an accident was treated with offers of assistance, not viewed as the means for grabbing children from their parents and their home. But that was before those in power noticed the opportunity PL 105-89 (HR 867) offered them.

For four years the Pounds saw their children for just two hours a month. Looking at the children, across the barriers built by CPS always reduced them to tears.

The last time the Pounds saw their children was at the YMCA in Pinellas County. That 'not for profit' is paid 125 million a year, just for that county, according to Pound who says he has researched the subject exhaustively, to 'babysit' kids as they meet their parents in a stark ten by twelve foot room for the two hours they are allowed to be together for those months when they still hoped to be reunited.

The system is intended to separate children, a valuable commodity, from their parents. Mandates to reunite children and parents are consistently ignored as children are processed further and further into the system. What then happens to the children varies, but is in all cases appalling.

Along with the system abuse of families parents attempting to work in the system report that FOIA requests on such routine matters as copies of the Oath of Office and bonds, required by the Constitution, for each judge or elected official or law enforcement officer, are not produced, despite repeated requests. Many ask, over and over again, why such requests should be met with silence and hostility. Parents continue to struggle to regain custody of their children and to exact accountability from those who claim sovereign immunity as government employees from the impact of their acts on ordinary Americans. The claim of sovereign immunity for those employed by government is, according to Constitutional experts such as not employed by government entirely without foundation.

The three families whose cases appear here each report that they will never stop fighting. Each family is presently filing a civil rights suit against those involved in their several cases. In light of yesterday's revelation on child-sex rings, operating across the United States but very present in their own areas of Florida, their questions are ever more anguished as they deal with the echoing emptiness of homes that once held the laughter of children.

Very upsetting. I just hope this situation gets monitored because I feel for all those young girls and what their future lies ahead for them.

I am speechless on your post Anon... but I am sure it is truth you speak. It's very sad, but true. Heartbreaking.

that is how I see it.

Also, it was looking more and more like a lawyer freak-fest than I felt comfortable with.

WITH that said Paul, I can appreciate where you are coming from. I don't care how many wives, husbands, monkeys one wants for their partner... BUT, when you are bringing innocence into it a powerful game such as this who are powerless, then I have a problem with it. There have been people coming out, stepping up to the plate, talking about what goes and has gone on in this sect. Is this fact or fiction?

As long as there is no abuse, forced sexual acts on children, and mind control (of which all of the above has been factually stated,) then the children should have been left alone. What this is going to do to them and how this will affect them for the rest of their lives, could be very traumatic. ON the other hand, if there was no intervention and these things were and are going, on could also affect them as well for the rest of their lives. If this is a religious sect, then why the lies and deceit? Too many loop holes here.. Who do you really trust when it comes to religious sects with all that is corrupt anymore?

I think it was a terrible thing for them to separate the children from their parents. As the reality of the thing emerges, it appears as though most of the parents had done nothing wrong. The emotional trauma laid on these families is unjustified and I hope they sue Texas for all it has.
Polygamy is a choice that adults should have the freedom to make as long as the minors are not subjected to abuse. Individuals who are abusive should be charged but the acts of an individual should not implicate the entire group.
This is just another example of the governments heavy handed treatment of those that are considered different.
Multiple marriages, gay marriage, any marriage, if the government is going to license the act, they need to make it available to all. Marriage is a contract and there are plenty of contracts that have been formed by multiple parties.

At first it was a Word, when all American waist
Of the impoverished by USA's rulling class,
Women children, starved and debased,
And men broke, hunting it in wast,
Built a communion-survival Faith.

But if it ever was anything Holly
In mind of Ruster watching chicken,
It soon became a joke, on a Holly-Molly
For Rusters use and exploit the weakers,
For USA spies hide stolen kids, plagio-rollies.

So, it is USA, nothing surprise me now here.
Neither Cuban kido industry of Batista-USA,
Nor "McMartin" case or Homo-Marrige eager,
It is Hell that keeps appearance of legal way.

Too many issues bundled together to get a clear, concise opinion together.

The legal aspect is probably the easier part of it. Leaders could be charged w/child abuse or statutory rape at a minimum.

The other questions are really good "should"-type questions. It's hard to say how far you can take Constitutionally protected religious freedom. For example, Q3... If answering yes, then would the law be infringing on religious freedom. If no, then are we condoning child abuse.

Really tough thought-provoking questions.

Religious conservatives can be worse than atheist in many cases. To use religion to enslave women and children is what the these men are about and it should never be allowed.
It is better to not believe in God at all rather than to twist his will into your own.
Allowing reality to be defined for generations by generations of reality impaired people is what leads to these types of things.
I believe that God is alive an doing very well and can be summoned into any one's life by the power of simple prayers, but be careful what you pray for because you might just get it.
Arranged Marriages for people of any age should be against the law.
People who wish to willfully enter into polygamist marriages should be allowed but only if they have not been brain washed into it by twisted conservative religions.