GI Bill
Posted 12 weeks 19 hours ago byHi there,
Let me take a moment to introduce myself. My name is Isaac Wolf. I am an editor at Scripps Howard News Service, the Washington bureau of the company that owns Red Blue America.
In the days and weeks ahead, you'll be seeing my posts regularly, as I suggest topics related to current events. My goal is to take a hot topic and -- by presenting a question -- open that topic up for robust discussion.
Red Blue America is a place for vibrant, meaningful conversation -- and, from what I have seen, you have created a meaningful community here.
And with introductions out of the way, my first question:
Would a more generous GI Bill cause members of the U.S. military to leave for a college education? That's one question at the center of Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama's fight over the GI Bill making its way through Congress.
What do you think?













Thoughts
We need to take care of our fighting men and women
Submitted on June 20th, 2008 by AnonymousI have been a High School teacher for nearly 12 years. Before 9/11, I would have 10-15 kids a year expressing interest in entering the military. The school year of 9/11, 22 of my students were eagerly trading in their college plans for military service. Now, I'm lucky if more than 4-5 students a year plan on that route. That's a very discouraging drop!
Most are turning away from that option because they don't want to fight in a war they don't believe in. I've had more than a few say that they would love to serve, but not under the current administration. Several of my students this year say they are waiting to see what happens in the election and what the next president brings to the table. Since those students will probably start on other paths, the likelihood that they will reconsider the military option again is pretty slim.
They aren't basing their decision on the GI bill. But the reality is, most don't want to be lifers anyway. They want to serve their country for a time, get the training they can get, then get out so they can build a life and a family without the risk of being sent overseas for months or years at a time. Isn't that the basis of our military anyway? To force people to become lifers because you aren't giving them other options is NOT making a strong military. Those who fight without heart are not the best fighters.
Lifers choose to be lifers because they have a deep commitment to continuing their service. They aren't swayed by the alternative of a GI bill. But the alternative should be there. Those who choose to serve for a set number of years and then join the private sector are among the best and brightest our country has. They have dedicated a part of their lives to protecting our freedoms and deserve the best training for improving our society in the private sector as well. We owe them that much. My guess is, for the vast majority of high school students who consider the military as a stepping stone to a better life, it would be an incentive to entering the service. Someone here quoted a statistic of 16% increase. That's pretty significant.
We need to fund the GI bill, but if McCain's fear is that we would loose lifers as a result, perhaps he could focus his energies on giving our high school students a military they WANT to sign up for. No one likes to fight an unpopular war.
MBA bigot
Submitted on June 2nd, 2008 by rom12921What do you have against MBA's?
I don't think the worker is the enemy. Conversely, they're the heroes. People serving their country, company are the most productive and have made this country strong.
We should update the GI Bill to make sure it is providing the same benefits intended, including inflation.
Blackwater mercenaries hire vets at higher pay anyway
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by Bull MooseWith more our America's fighting forces are privatized anyway, it is all pointless.
Blackwater is fighting the city of San Diego to expand their training ground property as of this posting.
Little Eric Prince, head of Blackwater, and son of a millionaire daddy, a guy who likes to play mercenary, has billions in government contracts.
Too bad the government can't cough up money for the poor maimed and disfigured troops already languishing in VA hospitals and elsewhere.
Privatizing is Bush/Cheney speak for funneling money to their fellow war profitting cronies.Grunts are on their own.
Long string of anonymous(es) below ...
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by John 2000Probably all the same moveon stooge. By the way McCain did not go to West Point.
McCain For Vets (LOL)
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by AnonymousI see McCain thinks he will get the military vote (LOL). Maybe the officers but I doubt few enlisted will vote for him seeing how much he supports them with his stance on the GI bill. And to think I was supporting him---
McCain=Amnesty & No New GI Bill
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by AnonymousI'll make this short and sweet. I'm a retired military man whose only child chose to follow in my footsteps. I find it appalling that Senator McCain is for Amnesty for illegals and against the Webb GI bill.
Bring Back The Draft
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by AnonymousSeeing we canot afford this unpopular war and we are having to borrow money to pursue it maybe we need to bring back the draft and pay the soldiers $150.00 a month for their first two years. If they decide to re-enlist then give them a new GI bill (which keeps up with inflation) and the current pay scale. I know that makes to much sense or requires all elements of society to fight in this war. We as a nation have the mentality thats its OK for someone else's child to go to War but not mine. Senator McCain was a officer as was his father so he never had to try to go to college using the GI bill. I doubt to many young people who's parents live in Johns Island or the Moorings are enlisting as Privates in the Army or Marines. They don't need the GI bill and are probally attending school at Harvard or Yale with the tax breaks President Bush implemented and Senator McCain wants to make permament while the national debt continues to rise and the dollar sink with no politican either party addressing how we plan to pay off the national debt in my lifetime. For us to leave this to future generations is very selfish on our part. We are now the biggest debtor nation on earth and it continues to grow. I'm glad I don't have those people in Washington running my household budget.
GI bill
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by AnonymousMost people don't know much about the GI bill, I only know a little.
The GI bill is a separate part of the contract you sign when you join the military. You must agree to the terms before signing AND you must pay a $100. month for the first 12 months to make you eligible. Guess what happens if you don't sucessfully complete your contract? Guess what happens to the money you paid in?
John McCain has been in a position to help our service members from the time he was an adult, and has done very little. John McCain did serve, but did he have a real choice? You see his grandfather and father were both Admirals in the U.S Navy. He did go to West Point, but screwed around and finished in the very bottom of his class causing embarrassment to his whole family.
Bottom line, there's just one reason McCain is against Jim Webbs GI bill amendment. It allows the GI to leave the military after serving only his agreed to contract and go to school. A study says this may reduce the military retention rate by 16% and McCain believes we need these Vets if we want to continue in place's like Iraq.
But, the study also shows the military sign-ups would increase by 16%.
We Owe Them
Submitted on May 31st, 2008 by AnonymousSeeing how Senator McCain was not a enlited man he did not have to use the GI bill. He probally attended the Naval Academy which they get paid while attending and his father was a Admiral in the Navy so money was not a problem for his family. I cannot see how Senator McCain is for amnesty for illegal invaders as is Senator Kennedy and President Bush and oppose this increase in benefits to these brave man and women fighting in a unpopular war. Its a sad day for America when illegals get better benefits than alot of honorably discharged veterans by sneaking accross our borders. Its a sad day for America when we have all these homeless vets and Senators McCain's stance cannot help troop morale. I've spent over 20 years in the Army and feel sorry that they did not prusue the "Powell Doctrine" in this war. If Senator McCain is against increasing the GI bill and still wants to win this war bring back the draft with no exemptions and lets win this thing quickly. We defeated both Japan & Germany quicker than this mess with the country continuig to sink deeper in debt and he's talking about more tax cuts as the dollar continues to lose value. Something sounds very wrong, wish we had Mitt Romney running to fix this mess.
Wait a Second,
Submitted on May 28th, 2008 by Respectfulguestsince when is something earned that has not yet been offered?
Here's an idea, let's pull all US military across the world and send them to college, better yet Disney world. It's an election year should get some votes.
This bill is opposed by Senator McCain because implementing would significantly reduce the number of longer term or career military personnel. Does not take an advanced degree in Organizational Building to understand the negative implications of motivating young individuals to leave an organization after a short tenure, regardless if it's the military or a business.
Conveniently omitted from much of the political posturing is the fact Senator McCain endorses a phased incentive plan tied to tenure for military personnel.
After a distinguished "long term" military career one can not seriously tie Senator McCain and anti-military to the same sentence.
Realize the Obama Camp and Senator Obama are trying to garner votes with the military community, but to question Senator McCain's expertise on military matters is similar to Senator McCain questioning Senator Obama's expertise on Black Liberation Theology.
Taking an unpopular stance for long term gain is not anti-military, it is called being a Leader.
McCain is right
Submitted on May 28th, 2008 by janmbWelcome Ikewolf---
I agree with John on this one---time enough to get this GI bill thru at a later date maybe ly when we aren't bogged down in Iraq and paying for that.
Obama never served in the military nor has been on the Armed Services committee ( like Hillary) so what does he know but what he's been told to say by someone else. He'll be a hellava puppet though cause he can sure talk up a storm and get people believin--in just about anything.
Winning politics often does
Submitted on May 28th, 2008 by John 2000Winning politics often does not coincide with being actually right, but more often with being seen as being politically right ; where political means votes.
Yes, he got jumped by Obama and Clinton on this one. The fact that so many of his own party supported that version of the bill also hurts him.
What happens if Sen. McCain is right?
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by koolmom21It was not fair for Sen. Obama to use this and try to turn it into who respects our troops more but I guess that's just politics.
McCain said he recognized Americans have grown tired of the war and the mistakes made, "but we cannot react to those mistakes by embracing a course of action that will be an even greater mistake, a mistake of colossal historical proportions."
All I have to say is -What happens if Sen. McCain is right? I do not know if he is but what if he is?
Though still ...
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by John 2000after my initial response below ... I agree with IG where he says "I still can't believe John McCain opposes this. This is gonna be a blow he is gonna have a hard time to dodge."
Politically, it is a loser for him. It would have been easy to be on board. He certainly needs a better explanation.
This topic has produced a
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by wishnevskyThis topic has produced a lot of crazy talk, as if Jim Webb was a liberal commie. He saw a lot more combat and service to his country than most people, and is a best selling author, Navy Secretary and so on. As he says, "the Republican Party left me.
I sympathize. Been there..
I think this is a worthwhile bill, we owe it, and seeing as there are so few people in the military these days, it won't be a budget buster.
But in the true Republican MBA philosophy that the workers are the true enemy, the Right is attacking this idea.
And i am becoming more disappointed in McCain. He should be all over this bill, but the Republican money bags have him by the ball sack.
What if they gave an election and nobody came?
They EARNED it!
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by IronguyThe conservative philosophy is that, you must work for your keep. Hand outs will make you week.
I am a liberal. I agree with half the statement, You must work for your keep, but I also believe a helping hand in a small way can make a huge difference.
Regardless though, Whether you are liberal or conservative, you must indeed work for your keep. Even in communism you must work for your keep.
The GI's risked their LIFE! they poured years, time, and then some into a fight they thought was right.
The country asked the highest call of them, they answered. We made a promise to them that we will provide for them because they sacrificed for us.
Regardless if you support the war or not, you can not deny the fact that they did earn it. If that means they leave the army to do what they will and reap the rewards they EARNED. Then by all means, let them. They did EARN it. We would be no better than the Communists and Nazis to take and not give back. I support the troops, so I support the bill.
I still can't believe John McCain opposes this. This is gonna be a blow he is gonna have a hard time to dodge.
PEACE
IG
My blog on the topic.
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by MercyphotographyDear Isaac,
If you have a chance you can read my blog, on redblue, in reference to the no show of Sen.McCain for the Senate vote on the GI bill.
Go to: http://redblueamerica.com/blog/2008-05-2...
Welcome to the blog.
Best.
I see this as mostly a
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by John 2000I see this as mostly a political election year ploy to, in the short term, try to reap a harvest of military votes from military members and military family members. Beyond that I pretty much agree with Hamilton's view.
McCain's view on this is the correct one, but it easy to beat him down with this bigger, more inclusive, 'crisis' issue. Of course, there should be greater inducements left to re-up for service extension. It is not called 'service' for nothing. Pretty soon you would have people offering to serve a short stint strictly for the purpose of being served fat benefits. It would become a sort of military social welfare state.
Obama virtually guarantees that he will grow the size of the military 'force' while assuring 'we' won't be needing it under his administration. Of course, maybe we could send troops to Colombia to assist Union leaders there ... to help make Hugo be happy, etc.
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Ooops - forgot to say welcome into your space ))
Should we be wary of handle like 'ikewolf' ... what is the history of the moniker?
Inflation matters
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by rom12921The G.I. bill as it exists has not kept up with the inflation of college education.
By adding a mechanism (5%-7% increase annually?) to benefits to make sure they don't decrease in real dollars would be a wise solution.
If McCain doesn't want to add to the benefits, at least make sure they are not effectively cut by inflation.
McNasty and the GI BILL
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by Skye Rivershttp://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/...
Good topic!
Submitted on May 27th, 2008 by HamiltonAmerica’s fighting men and women deserve the highest level of support available. But why should we wait until after anything? Why can’t we offer spouses and children tuition opportunities while part of the family remains on active duty? Why can’t we raise the pay of non-commissioned-officers to the level of civilian professional in the field of medicine or law. If we truly want the best of the best there should be no benefit to good for our true American heroes’.
The real deal is that the radical left to include Mr. Webb and of course Mr. Obama wants desperately to destroy the American military. These people don’t care about soldiers or their families and Mr. Webb’s GI bill isn’t a construct of assistance for anybody, it’s meant to lure away as many professional soldiers as possible. Barrack has eagerly expounded on his bleak and tragically naive vision of our military and its role in national security and foreign policy. Barrack will humble our country and knell to the one world government that is the United Nations, meekly requesting international military help for any possible security issues that may arise for the new Socialist America.