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http://wizbangblog.com/content/2007/02/2...

Editorial
The Post-Bush Climate

Published: May 14, 2008

John McCain has been engaged in the fight against global warming for years, even at the expense of breaking with Republican orthodoxy and with President Bush on the issue. But it was still an important moment this week when Mr. McCain, the presumed Republican presidential nominee, decided to raise the profile of climate change in the 2008 campaign. We have clearly entered the post-Bush era of policy and politics on climate change. However this election turns out, the United States will have a president who supports mandatory cuts in greenhouse gases. It is possible to begin to believe in the prospect of serious Congressional action.

Of course that proves nothing, does it? "It was a fine parade, everybody was out of step but my little Jimmy."

You know, there is nobody here but the five or six of us, and i for one am getting tired of haggling with the same stubborn people.

I am going to redefine my use of this blog. See my next blog post

Everyone does not believe Global Warming is man-made (human caused). Even if most do, it is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong.

Here what i know. Every scientific magazine or TV show i subscribe to or watch is convinced of Global Warming as a man-made phenomenon.

European Union, Brazil, Japan, Australia and just about everybody except the USA is taking steps to change their carbon footprint.

The Rockefeller Family is meeting to try and force Exxon brass to adapt to changing conditions.

The Nobel Committee is a very serious body, not a bunch of tree hugging commies.

All three of the presidential candidates have anti-climate change planks in their platforms

John McCain has called for "Mandatory Carbon Caps" in a major speech.

BP and Shell are at least advertising their green image.

Bunker Hunt, well known Texas right winger is the largest investor in wind energy on America.

Texas is by far the leader in wind power in America.

Want more facts?

I have been following this forum very closely. What a great venue this has been for the 'topic' at hand. Whether or not I think Gore is a Bell Ringer, Drum Major or Town Idiot for Global Warming as he globals to the bank.. is really not the question - atleast for me. When Gore was running for President and lost, I found it to be very disappointing because I did not want Bush in office. Which was the worse of the two evils?

The question was Global Warming and what I thought would be a great 'topic' for discussion. Obviously I was right. Where I am blogging from, instead of shooting off insults on who may know more than someone else, or pointing out spelling errors, wouldn't it be better to just continue on what facts or information someone has that may shed light to some of these topics keeping it clean with some integrity? I didn't come here for insults, but to take part in a forum that helps me make sense on what is going on in this very confused world at hand with grace, and not ignorance.

I can appreciate that there are facts on both sides backing up this topic, and I can only read so much on so many topics because it seems to me that everyone has something to say about everything going on in the world, and 'some' seem to have all the answers. For me, it's the journey and the connectidness we all share here at RBA and watching it all unfold. Again I repeat myself and say "for all I know, I know nothing" and I want to thank soom of you for pointing that out so very clearly. If through your eyes 'or thought' I learn something knew, it is with honor and grace I thank you for sharing........

Dear not GOD,
My comments are meant with kindness and respect and only questionning the validity of the data used by Mr Gore to support his argument- weak all around. Didn't want 'Skye falling'for hype, not supported by fact.

However,I believe more people are mindful of how we use resources (hopefully wisely) which is a "net positive" from the Inconvenient book.

I have to agree with Pablo. I too am a geologist and I have never worked for the big oil companies at any time. I worked for an environmental firm then I worked for a couple of coal mining companies and now I am working for company mining silver and copper.

I was taught in school the three laws of Earth's climate scale that Pablo described. He is right and dead on as to what causes the earth's temperature.

If you just take one of those laws and then just look at a portion of it to spin it the way you want, then you get the big scare of global warming.

There is actually more scientist who are on board with the Ocean denisty issue than global warming for good reason. All know that if enough ice melts that it will shut down the ocean currents. That is a fact not fantasy.

Al Gore and all those non scientist have jumped on board with a few wackos who parade as real scientist. Its the global warming people who are presenting misinformation that are rooted in half lies. A half lie is still a lie.

The earth does get hot and does experience global warming. Just as the earth also experiences ice ages.
The truth is that the earth will not get so hot as to lose its atmosphere as Al Gore claims is where we are heading. That is an out right lie. But as Pablo stated, the warming trend is tied to other factors not to what some company produces.

in my previous comment, I in no way meant to imply this to be a mundane issue. This is a great topic. I simply meant it 'tongue-in-cheek' as a way to take an occasional short "break" from this debate.

The hardest think is explaining how Al Gore raised oil prices so high

Take this as the absolute truth from a Scientist and more specifically a Geologist.

Global warming is not caused by man!

Man has very little in the effect of the over all temperature.

If you want to know the one thing that man does that does effect temperature on the largest of the local scales. Its deforestation.

The reason why Africa is becoming more desert is a direct link to deforestation. Even in South America we are seeing a fundamental change toward a more arid landscape caused by deforestation.

How does this fit toward climate? Trees balance out the CO2. Less plant life to consume CO2 the more CO2 is left in the environment. But the effects currently are localized and those localized areas are getting bigger.

But honestly, the gases man produces have is like adding a drop of water in an over flowing 5 gallon bucket. Yea it does add to the overall volume but in the scheme of things is of little effect.

The father of climatology is not Dr. Byrson. Dr. Byrson is more or less the father of modern climate modeling or modeling of the climate in modern times or late half of the 20th century.

Geomorphology is the specific branch of geology which deals with climate over the full history of the earth.

The new catagory of geoclimatology was born with the rise in the desire for people to look at global warming and there are now specific courses just in Climate. It was born out of geomorphology where people just look at climate rather than the full picture of earth's history.

The father of Geomorphology is William Morris Davis. Mr. Davis was a geologist from 1884 to 1934 who defined the basics of what we call geomorphology which included climate changed through the geologic record.

The truth is that there really is no global warming as Al Gore claims. Its a lie. This lie is hidden in the facts that the earth is currently undergoing a warming trend that we are seeing today and will most likely continue to see it happening over forseeable future.

If things remain as they are with no other factors including Man and all the effects of Man, the earth will still continue to increase in temperature over the next 1000 years or more. But even this statement is not right or valid.

The plain fact is that there is three factors which deal with global warming or ice ages. These three things determine how hot the earth gets or how cold the earth gets. Its these three things which actually determine the temperature of the earth and has always determined the temperature of the earth.

The first main factor is the swing in the earth's magnetic pole from 22.5° to 24.5°. Currently the earth is at 23.4° progressing toward 24.5°. The closer we get to the 24.5° the more of a greenhouse tendency the earth has.

The next important item is Ocean density and salinity. The reason why this is important is that the oceans contain more than 90% of the earth's greehouse gases mainly CO2 and Ozone. As the earth warms up and melts off the ice shelves of the poles, this lowers the over all salinity of the oceans which also causes the oceans to become less dense. Eventually the tipping balance will happen where the density of the oceans will not be enough to keep the CO2 and Ozone locked up. CO2 is locked up in solid form and Ozone which is nothin more than O3 from separating from the oxygen trapped within the ocean. It is the density of the oceans which prevents O3 from separating out into other forms which is mainly H2O, and other chemical forms. Both gases will be released in mass.

For a short period this will make the earth hotter and will see an exponential rise in temperature over time. Eventually the level of the salinity will be so low that the Oceanic convection can not occur because there will will be a diferiential between fresh water and salt water. Thus the ocean currents will stop. When this happens, the earth will cool rapidly.
It will cause the poles to increase its ice cap and it is possible that the oceans to drop 10 to as much as 100 feet before the currents return. This is commonly referred to as the Snowball earth effect.

The last item is level of dust and ash from vulcanism. If the earth has little in the amount of global dust and ash, then the earth warms up more than normal because the earth absorbes more of he solar radiation. If the level of vulcanism rises to the point that the level of solar radiation is reflected back into space, then you have a cooling effect on the earth.

The little ice age of the middle ages was from this effect. It is assumed that the event that spawned the little Ice age was Yellow Stone Vulcanism which is now a cauldera or a combination of several large vulcanic events.

Thus you can have these items cancel each other out or magnify the effects of either global warming or Ice age.

But Man has little or no effect on the overall temperature of the earth. Man can cause localized warming or cooling. Mainly man has a direct link to air quality. But basically has no effect on temperature as it is applied to the whole earth.

Thus Al Gore's push for global warming is a lie and is a scam for making money for a select set of scientist and companies which deal on the fears and ignorance of the general populace.

That would be because I finally got in to have that glass of red wine I wanted with GOD and GOD is bringing me up to speed...

see if you can catch the Discovery channel show on solar flares blowing out every circuit on earth. If god wanted to clean the earth off, it would be no problem.

I am disputing Al Gore's assertions from my own reading. If a non-scientist, layman can see these errors, I would think others could do the same.

The book seems more of a persuasive argument by only highlighting "facts" supporting and omitting the rest. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh's radio program.

Enjoy your lunch

It should be obvious for anyone reading Inconvenient Book, data is manipulated to fit the conclusion. The book is sloppy thought; not partisan,just illogical, disingenuos nonsense.

Rising average temperatures (indisputable data) mean there are rising average temperatures. We don't know if it's a problem (Maybe it's natural) or if we can do anything about it.

"...same people using the same sloppy tactics against evolution that are against the validity of global warming." Again if sloppy tactics mean using sound reasoning, instead of believing anothers assumptions, then you got me - guilty.

Sloppy language = sloppy thought.

Attacking Al Gore's wife =/= disproving global warming.

Being mad at having to pay a quarter for a plastic bad =/= being right about a left wing conspiracy

ad hominem attacks do not trump physics.

And incomplete data does not invalidate the totality of that data.

It's the same people using the same sloppy tactics against evolution that are against the validity of global warming. Maybe it is natural. Maybe god made all the fossils just to damn skeptics, maybe tobacco cures lung cancer. Maybe the climate is changing because god wants Wyoming to be tropical, and he hates polar bears. But i wouldn't bet on it.

I also said that natural or man made there is an obvious problem. And i suppose the Nobel Committee didn't do their homework, because they were Democrats?

After reading the Inconvenient book (won't use truth) I have found many errors in presenting the information that anyone who's had Statistics 101 can see.

Before I start, the book is really top-notch with illustrations, satellite photos and is well-produced.

However, some of the more egregious errors are in presenting spending on environmental cleanups from the 1950's to the 1990's. The graph shows an immense increase in values because the dollars are not inflation adjusted. It is an invalid comparison.

Another example shows a lake drying up over the last 20-30 years as evidence of Global warming. The text does not tell you the tributaries were dammed and the population using the lake more than doubled. If somone drinks from a glass of water and it is not refilled, then there is less. Doesn't confirm global warming or UFO's or ...

Human causation is never proven in the book, it is assumed. Just because tempertures rise, doesn't mean we can narrow-down the cause. The assumption would rule out volcanic activity, solar flares, changes in the poles and multi-century climate cycles. This is a false causation logical fallacy and something no academic or Nobel Peace Prize winner should do. It is taught in Jr College; Philosophy 101/Intro to Logic.

"...the more the right attacks Gore, the more money they make from oil and coal, and the more deaths they will cause." Very dramatic Wishnevsky, but very wrong. The reason Al Gore is attacked is because his work is fraudulent.

You might spend some time seriously perusing the information, opinions, and various links offered at the rather extensive site that looks at global warming from various angles. Please consider:

http://www.oism.org/news/s49p1835.htm

It contains the article you provided in the blog plus many, many other corroborating links.

Another link : http://www.fdrs.org/arguments_against_gl...

expands to a view reaching well beyond purely environmental concerns.

Where in the heck do you get the assumption that I am some kind of California Global Warming eco-fascist do-gooder?

I cannot think of anyone (except a few others) that I have a greater disdain for than that hypocritical farce, Al Gore.

I would appreciate your removing my handle from your comment below.

That is pretty silly, and i wonder why you post such stuff. All this obfuscation from the right is very short sighted, and even if it was natural change, that will make no difference if your city is under water.

I have a small company that makes wood products, and my supplier tells me i cannot get birch plywood from Russia, because the Siberian permafrost is melting, and the lumberjacks can't get into the forests.

The only difference between if it is a natural or man made climate change is that if it is man made, we might be able to moderate it.

Bottom line, we are in deep doo-doo, and the more the right attacks Gore, the more money they make from oil and coal, and the more deaths they will cause.

That's morality for you.