What's the matter with Obama and Pennsylvania
Posted 14 weeks 5 days ago byApparently, Barack Obama has read Thomas Frank. But have Pennsylvania voters? According to Huffington Post's Mayhill Fowler, who is clearly in the tank for Hillary Clinton, Obama had some fairly condescending things to say about long-suffering inhabitants of rural Pennsylvania and middle America at a California fundraiser last Sunday:
"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said.
"And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Just to be clear, Obama is saying that if you live in an old, blue-collar industrial town, you can't be blamed for being a gun-toting, religious, immigrant-hating extremist. Those poor folks just don't realize that they've been voting against their economic interests all these years, as Frank so helpfully informed us in his book. I don't buy it, but lots of people do. Obama certainly seems to. He needs all the support he can get on April 22.
I bet Hillary Clinton accepts the Frank thesis, too. But that didn't stop her from seizing on Obama's remarks with gusto. "Pennsylvanians," Clinton told a crowd in the Keystone State today, "don't need a president who looks down on them. They need a president who stands up for them, who fights for them, who works hard for your futures, your jobs, your families." Team McCain piled on, too. "It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking," said McCain spokesman Steve Schmidt. "It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans."
And now Obama's campaign is in full defense mode. Said spokesman Tommy Vietor:
Senator Obama has said many times in this campaign that Americans are understandably upset with their leaders in Washington for saying anything to win elections while failing to stand up to the special interests and fight for an economic agenda that will bring jobs and opportunity back to struggling communities. And if John McCain wants a debate about who's out of touch with the American people, we can start by talking about the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans that he once said offended his conscience but now wants to make permanent.
I've read some clever reactions from the right side of the blogosphere. "This is probably just a tin-eared moment for a guy normally adept at avoiding such things," wrote Ken McCracken in a post at Say Anything titled Obama Disses The Hicks And Rubes Of Pennsylvania. "It does give a glimpse into his worldview, however."
Indeed, Tom Maguire at Just One Minute described Obama's remarks as "unleash(ing) his inner Michelle."
Jim Geraghty at National Review. as always, cuts right to the quick: "Boy, I'd hate for people to get bitter, and to cling to antipathy to people who aren't like them because of, say, a religious leader... You know, somebody preaching hate from the pulpit or something like that. Good thing Barack Obama is always on top of circumstances like that, and would never stand for that..."
Meanwhile, the gents over at The American Spectator's blog are having a fairly involved discussion. "Pomo-con" James Poulos offers a "quixotic" defense of Obama's statement, noting "Any American liberal or conservative or libertarian (or socialist or...) worth his or her salt should be able, I think, to readily recognize this character as close or very close to representing a real constituent and riff accordingly on his plight and who's to blame. So it seems to me Obama's done."
That's actually not a bad way of considering the comments, come to think of it. However, as James Antle observes, "there is something vaguely pejorative about his description of these voters and his framing of their issues -- they're bitter, they 'cling' to guns and religion, they have an 'antipathy' toward immigrants and foreigners. This isn't helped by the context: Obama was giving this little sociology lecture to a bunch of Marin County fat cats."
But, because this is Obama we're talking about, there is always Hope. Ace reports how Obama is already mending fences with any offended sons of the soil. Good luck with that.














Thoughts
Re: Oops
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by Jim LakelyOops what? What did you not notice until now?
Oops
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by dotsSorry, Jim, Ben.
I guess I hadn't noticed until just now.
Clinton 60-40 in PA
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by John 2000Bitter? yeah I'm bitter as hell that the Democratic Party, which once has a modicum of repect, has become a rat's nest for the Kerry's, Kennedy's, Dean's, Pelosi's, Boxer's, Wrangle's, Leahy's .. almost endless list. I am bitter that Congress, whether these 'leaders' are majority or minority are such a bunch of loser, small time, mentally and morally bankrupt bunch of kooks that GWB and especially McCain look great by comparison. I would be especially bitter if they manage to INSTALL BHO into the white house.
Shut Up
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousI agree with you.. And i think Clinton should win.
MaviS from Jersey.
Vote Republican and then whine when you go broke?
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by Bull MooseSince your family values hypocrite Gingrich and his Congressional takeover in 1994, the middle class started downhill,although prepped by Reagan's rising tide lift's all yachts baloney,
How anyone who voted for Bush, you know the guy who gave China Most Favored Nation trading status,can now whine that they can't pay their bills is either stupid or a masochist. What did you expect? Tax cuts (twice) for billionaires in times of war, healthcare left to Wall Street charlatans, and lobbyist writing our laws,i.e. Bankruptcy bill.
If you want more punishment keep voting Republican,because you had the fantasy you were one when you had decent middle class wages, but the multi-millionaire and billionaire Republicans conned you with the Family Values scam, but left out the monetary part of Value in family values.
The Republicans must be having a good belly laugh at the country clubs about how they tricked you clowns into putting them in power to plunder and pillage the country's resources.
Shut up
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by AnonymousIf both Clinton and Obama don't stop attacking each other we are all going to suffer when we get stuck with McCain as our next president. Seriously people do you want another war lover in office? I know I don't!!!!!!! Attacking each other makes us all look stupid. Try using all this energy towards pointing out that the Republicans have been out of control and against the masses only caring for a select few.
Again stop acting like Ass's stick to what is important, stop acting like spoiled children.
JB
The horse is dead, BUT
Submitted on April 14th, 2008 by dotsThe horse is dead and the topic is slightly off, but isn't there an irony here?
I mean Ben's blog is highlighting an extrapolation of Obama's remarks to a level of elitism, while the thread takes a turn contrasting the quality and substance of named commenters vs. anonymous commenters. If I'm the only one that sees that, then so be it. That happens a lot.
This site does not have to accept anos. Many sites don't. But anos are good for click-throughs like rubes are good for votes.
In an inane attempt to re-direct myself to the topic at hand, I'll see your interesting and raise you an ever decreasing concentric circle:
Accusing the condescender of condescension is condescending to the condescended.
I'm just saying.
Re: Yeah, well
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by Jim Lakelydots,
Ben has pretty much said what I was planning on saying in response. I still think most of the anonymous stuff on this thread is spam -- or, at best, a poor cut and paste job.
Besides, I was just having a little fun with the dude (or dude-ette). I have no problems with anonymous posters, as long as they have something interesting to say. What's so daring about posting pre-fab talking points?
Yeah, well.
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by dotsYeah, well. My son may run for president one day.
You guys will have a field day with my comments 20-30 years from now, whatever side he runs on. He would have to disavow, repudiate, and respectfully disagree with his own father's fence sitting fence sitter opinions.
Re: From the shadows
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by BenEasy, dots. I take your point about anonymity, although my inclination is to attach a name whenever possible. I think Jim was objecting more to the drive-by nature of anonymous commenting than anything else. He's obviously willing to put his name to his opinion. It's much easier to spout off behind the mask of anonymity than to put your signature on a public stand.
From the shadows
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by dotsHey, Jim!
Posting anonymity is one of my favorite topics!
The intelligence and foresight to keep one's google juice at a minimal level should raise one's standing, not lower it. Some of us have livelihoods that don't depend on name recognition, so don't go all chest beating on the anos. If you'd like, we can get together and have a beer.
Obama's speech was, as usual, fairly innocuous. Making a big deal about it says more about his opponents and the spin hungry (starving, apparently) media than it does about Obama.
Shooting arrows at ano commenters that don't agree with you is what I hear the Coulters and the Limbaughs accusing Liberals of all the time.
Are you a Liberal?
Settle down, my fellow American.
Re: Hey Jim
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by Jim LakelyAnd posting anonymously doesn't give you the standing to question my standing. Come out of the shadows.
The "message" itself is pretty weak. Is mentioning Obama's snobbishness yet another "distraction" from the real issues?
Hey Jim
Submitted on April 13th, 2008 by AnonymousNot liking the message doesn't give you standing to shoot the messenger.
I smell Spam
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by Jim LakelyExcept from that last guy (or gal, but probably a guy).
Hey anonymous people! Get a better script. The current one is lame.
Go get a job!
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousWhy don't you lazy assed socialists go get a job and quit your whining. Cuba cried for change over 40 years ago and got Castro. Germany wanted change and they got Hitler. If you want Barack Hussien Obama, you will get the same.
Obama message
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousYes I know what it is like to be bitter,wondering if I should buy medicine,or gas for the month.I cling to my faith,also,and I thank God for such a great candidate,who brings us hope for a country that is turned upside down.How does Hilary sleep at nite,after her remark about Obama looking down on people who are hurting.She is so wrong,but of course she will do anything or hurt any way she can to get a vote.She has a hard time telling the truth,remember?People in Pennsylvania,just might be blessed if they vote for Obama!
Obama is RIGHT
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousI can,t believe all the nonsense the people are trying to spread about the Obama speech.He is the best and most honest candidate we have,and some would twist his words and keep spreading doubts and hate towards him, mainly to get a vote for themselves.He is trying to make a point that we really need a candadate who truly wants to bring us out of the hopeless,bitter feelings that many of us feel about a government that does not care ,or does not hear our plea for just a little fairness.Obama brings hope, and a promise that he will fight for us ,and change,which we desperately need, or we will be four more years of the same old same.
A must-read story from a grateful Pennsylvanian
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by Jim LakelyGreat parody of a rural Keystone Stater who listened to Obama's comments about him and has seen the light:
Really. Read the whole thing -- just not while drinking anything or you'll ruin your computer.
Gun votes
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by Jim LakelyWow. Good thing there aren't many NRA members who vote in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana or West Virginia — or this could really come back to sting Obama.
Are you anonymous posters below serious, or are you just following the Obama camp's instructions? 'Cuz those excuses you're sending out ... well ... we rubes like to say that those dogs won't hunt.
Give Thanks
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by CNThanks be for the prolonged Dem. primary. The intreviewing process for the highest ofice in this land, has finally intervened via Providence regarding the character-less Barack Obama. I see an Obama Pa. loss of 15% or more. Obama has shown his true colors. He has continually spat into the face of the common man & women who have historicaly made the difference in all Presidential elections. He will now, with the remaining states, to once more try to defend the indefensable. Luckly Pa. will have the first shot to put this PRETENDER away. Chain reaction from on out. CN
Bitter...
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousBarack has seen it, and we are living it. Of course we are bitter. We have seen our cities and towns go from booming to almost desolate. The only job you can get is McDonalds, or Wal-mart for 6.50 and hour, but the price for everything has gone up, that someone making 10.00 an hour is having trouble making it. Everyone is getting...bitter, when you can't pay your bills, or feed your family, Your Dam right, I am BITTER !!!
IF Hillary would come to this area instead of sending Bill and Chelsey, she might just see what bitter Americans look like.
Debbie in PA
Bitter
Submitted on April 12th, 2008 by AnonymousYES WE ARE MORE THAN BITTER. THANK YOU, I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER
Bitter indeed...
Submitted on April 11th, 2008 by AnonymousHmph... we are fed up! And not just rural Americans. Those of us who are struggling to get by in this ailing economy, who have to choose between going out to dinner or a movie with our families and being able to afford to fill our gas tanks in order to get to and from jobs that do not pay us enough. Those of us who have shipped our loved ones overseas to face death for a misguided war are fed up. Those of us who see corporate executives making bundles of cash while support personnel struggle with minimum wages are fed up. Those of us whose children go to schools where they haven't purchased new textbooks for ten years are fed up with a system that cuts funding for educational programs while racking up massive debts that our children and grandchildren will have to pay are more than just a little bit frustrated, we're angry. Those of us who see the global environmental crisis looming while our government has refused to significantly decrease its reliance on foreign oil for over 30 years are fed up. And yes, those of us who have watched our civil rights being chipped away from our Constitution through political fear tactics cling to the basic rights that remain afforded to us - our right to free speech, our right to bear arms, our right to unionize, our right to organize, and yes many of us cling to our faith to help us maintain the strength not to cave under corporate greed and special interest influences.
Obama's message has consistently been that America is fed up with the way things are going in our country and the polls in the last week confirm that. The majority of Americans report that they believe that we are worse off now than we were five years ago and that our country is headed in the wrong direction. He has inspired us to make our voices heard in order to change the way that things work in politics. He has rallied us to face the truth and tackle it. To believe in ourselves and each other and begin the hard work of taking back the American Dream.
Bitter man
Submitted on April 11th, 2008 by AnonymousObama is right, we are bitter, we tend to retreat to religion, we set and clean our guns so we don't feel unempowered, we think about people who are different from us and wonder if maybe they have taken some of the control we once had.
When people in power do things no matter how much the people tell them not to and continue to move our jobs overseas, these things and thoughts are all we have left.
I hope this conversation continues right up until the PA. primary. Because it will win Obama a lot of new votes.
But he's right
Submitted on April 11th, 2008 by dotsI know some of those rubes. The only problem with Obama's analysis is that he puts too fine a point on it. These are, after all, the idi... I mean god-fearing Americans that put W in the white house for a second term.