Chris Hedges: "I don't believe in atheists"
Posted 24 weeks 10 min ago bySalon has an interesting interview with Chris Hedges, who last year wrote "American Fascists" to describe the rise of the Christian right. (He was, as you can gather from the title, against it.) So his latest project might be a bit of a surprise: A takedown of militant atheists such as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins:
In May of 2007 I went to L.A. to debate Sam Harris, and then two days later I went to San Francisco to debate Christopher Hitchens. Up until that point, I hadn't paid much attention to the work of the New Atheists. After reading what they had written and walking away from these debates, I was appalled at how what they had done for the secular left was to embrace the same kind of bigotry and chauvinism and intolerance that marks the radical Christian right. I found that in many ways they were little more than secular fundamentalists.
You know what? He's right.
I started out pretty deeply embedded in the church -- I even graduated from a Mennonite college that put a big emphasis on teaching a "Christian worldview" -- but it's fair to say that I'm not there anymore. I chose a kind of agnosticism (though, after a lifetime spent in the church, I still find myself reluctant to use the word) and, ultimately, drifted into a kind of apathy regarding such matters. I've made a reverse Pascal's Wager, betting God -- if he or she exists -- is far too big to get mad at me for making "wrong" doctrinal choices based on the evidence at hand.
And that's worked out pretty well for me. But I've tried to keep an open mind: If life has brought me this far, it might very well take me right back again.
I don't dredge out my journey from faith to non-faith to be self-indulgent; I only mean to establish a foundation for this point: There are tyrants on both sides of the religious divide.
The Soviet Union offers a good example of the evils of trying to legislate religion out of people's lives. The Crusades (way back when) and modern Islamic states show the evils of trying to require religion, as well.
Society works best, then, not when it is Christian or Muslim or affirmatively atheist -- it works best when individuals have the freedom on conscience to work out their own answers to such big questions. Society works best when government is silent on such matters.
But there is always the temptation to tyranny; it exists if we believe in Christianity, veganism, Communism or any other -ism you can name. Humility -- recognizing the possibility that you might not be right -- is the only cure I know. But it is in desperately short supply.
Thoughts
Big difference
Submitted on March 14th, 2008 by AnonymousThere's a big difference between atheists like Hitchen, Dawkins, and Harris on the one hand and fundamentalists on the other. The fundamentalists are absolutely sure their holy book is right, came from god himself, and spells out his plan for your life.
Like good scientists, these atheists aren't absolutely sure of anything, they just follow the evidence (or lack thereof in the case of god).
Try reading Dawkins' The God Delusion and you'll see this for yourself, I think.
Also, try visiting Dawkins' website. You'll see lots of links to the opposing side, something you won't find on religious web sites.
Re: Anon
Submitted on March 14th, 2008 by JoelAnon writes:
Just to be clear, I'm not asking atheists to be silent.
I'm asking both sides to show humility. I'm an equal-opportunity requester.
Atheists
Submitted on March 14th, 2008 by AnonymousI am not an atheist because I don't care to be so easily defined, and dismissed. Nor am I an afairyist or aufoist. You could name any fictional character and then classify those who don't believe in your fiction as anti-whateverthehellitis. Believers just won't cede the power that having their invisible sky god on the table brings. Affirmative atheists do not "push" a world view. What they push against is the constant drum beat of god and war that the believers cover the whole landscape with. When you ask that atheists be silent you are really asking them to simply accept the sea of religion we all have to swim through and to shut up. Their IS no binary divide (i.e., "both sides" of the religion pathology). There is the thick smoke of the sky god and their is freedom from it. Hardly two equal sides.
Church raises
Submitted on March 14th, 2008 by AnonymousI was raised a Methodist, spend many years being a Christian, and have finally come to the conclusion much like Joel's. But, living in a christian society I find it very hard to disconnect from the overwhelming Judeo-Christian ideals of our country. Everywhere you go in the American society it is just accepted that you are "religious". It's hard to not be influenced by that. Even at family gathering before we eat, a prayer is said. I stand quietly and usually even say amen at the end, although I no longer believe. This is in order not to hurt the people I care most about, my family, who do believe. So I guess you could say I am not advancing the cause of religious or non-religious freedom.
Fascist Humility
Submitted on March 13th, 2008 by dotsI practice an arrogant humility. Militant agnosticism. I don't know and neither do you.
I am of the mindset that universal humility should be required. For lack of a better name, at this point I'm calling it "Humifascism."
Join me, and together we will effect change and hope in a world upon which nobody is committed to anything.
Never mind
Submitted on March 13th, 2008 by wbabbitI'm special...
I suppose it partially
Submitted on March 13th, 2008 by AnonymousI suppose it partially depends on what the desired result is...we've been quiet for so long that the right wing machine has become completely embedded. How many government ceremonies begin with a prayer, or end with a prayer? Who is the lone person allowed to counsel soldiers in a war zone? I think atheists have come across as weak for too long, but, as I said, even I find Hitchens a bit out of whack at times.
Though Dawkins isn't near as confrontational...I hear they don't like each other much...
How do I stop being anonymous, it irritates me...
Sort of agreement
Submitted on March 13th, 2008 by JoelI take your point, but I'm idealistic enough to think that fighting against those who would tyrannize your conscience with reverse tyranny only serves to create more tyranny, and doesn't get us the desired result.
Sort of Agreement
Submitted on March 13th, 2008 by AnonymousI agree with him in principle, even as an Atheist Christopher Hitchens strikes me as a bit...strong. However, in my opinion they are needed because of the sheer size of the right wing machine. For every Christopher Hitchens there are 5000 Dobsons or Pat Robertsons. We have been trampled for too long, and maybe the time to fight back has come.