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Does torture work? Sure it does. Does it work well and to our advantage? Absolutley not. It seems that people aren't looking at the long term effects of our actions. Do we really want to be known as the country that uses torture to obtain information? Should we ever be involved in another world war, countries, not just terrorists will remember that we will use any means necessary. So, when our men and women come home raped, beaten or decapitated, will you deem it justifiable? Was it not that countries way of protecting its interests? America's use of torture will have far greater impact than any "valuable" information that we will ever obtain from its use.

I will also add that I do agree that there will be times, here and there, that this solution is indeed ineffective. As with any problem solving solution, there are going to be fall backs. This is a fact of life that none of us can prevent. However, if the solution does MORE good than harm...well...

I don't deny that many terrorists are willing -- even eager -- to die for their beliefs. And while that's certainly a factor in deciding how to extract information, that doesn't change my first point: The evidence indicates that torture isn't effective. It may even -- in the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed -- cloud as much or more than it reveals.

And if that's the case, torture isn't merely immoral: It's also foolishly, stupidly counterproductive.

Sure. These World War II interrogators might be a good place to start:

When about two dozen veterans got together yesterday for the first time since the 1940s, many of the proud men lamented the chasm between the way they conducted interrogations during the war and the harsh measures used today in questioning terrorism suspects.

Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners' cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.

"We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture," said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler's deputy, Rudolf Hess.

That's our experience. Here's how Indonesia has been successful in its own fight against Muslim terrorists:

But if they really hoped to reduce the pool of possible new recruits for groups like Jemaah Islamiah, Indonesian leaders realized they had to win public support for their battle. Otherwise, police could arrest or kill hundreds of militants, and new radicals would just take their place.

The co-opted radicals are sent as advocates into Indonesian prisons, major breeding grounds of militants. In the jails and other sites, they work to convince would-be terrorists that attacking civilians is not acceptable in Islam, to show that terror actually alienates average people from their religion, to suggest that the police are not anti-Islam and to exploit internal antagonisms within terror networks to turn militants against each other.

The deradicalization program already has delivered. According to a recent report by the independent, nonprofit International Crisis Group, the Indonesian plan has "persuaded about two dozen members of Jemaah Islamiah ... to cooperate with the police."

Pretty good examples, I'd say.