Live-blogging the Democratic debate
Posted 27 weeks 2 days ago byIt's official. Dennis Kucinich will not be participating in tonight's debate.
We will, however, from the comfort of our own homes. I have a bottle of Laphroig nearby that will help me through the rough times.
The ground rules are this: It's an open thread. I'll be adding comments, and so will Ben. And, hopefully, so will you.
Things get underway in 10 minutes. I'm watching via my computer, so let's hope MSNBC.com works the way it should.
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Thoughts
Hillary and Bill
Submitted on February 24th, 2008 by AnonymousIf Hillary is elected Bill will be her #1 advisor in political and foreign relations as well as crisis and conflicts in her administration.
Bill & Hilliary
Submitted on February 24th, 2008 by John A.If Hiliary is elected president then that means that a majority of the voters have decided to install her as the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. I suppose that makes Bill the First Man, with not a whole lot to do except manage the female aids. That sounds like the fox guarding the hen house dosen’t it. But wait, Bill can also devote quite a bit of time to his foundation and valued contributors. What a deal, it sounds like having your cake and eating it too. Or to make the situation even more profoundly absurd if something happens to Hiliary then Bill’s back. Vote Republican and your worst concerns are over.
Move on and get over it!!!
Submitted on January 18th, 2008 by wendygYou know I honestly cannot believe that we are in the year 2008 and this ridiculous crap is still going on. I actually love Barack Obama, but I am appalled and quite astonished at how far this whole race issue has been taken. It's crazy. For one, if the African Americans would just stop trying to play the race card in EVERY situation they find themselves in .....THEN WE COULD ALL MOVE ON PEOPLE! It's a pathetic attempt and quite shameful if you ask me. You people are supposed to be on the same side....DEMOCRATS! Truly, I love all people, but as we all know, whites and blacks both try to play the race card too often. What I have a problem with, is the fact that Hillary may have said something that was taken out of context, she definitely went out of her way to spell out exactly what she was trying to say and not what the media was trying to say that she said. However, Obama took it upon himself to try and get some free points for the election by playing the race card. Now at this point, I don't know what I think anymore. I'm very disappointed. It never should have been an issue to begin with, as Hillary clearly did not mean to start anything with anyone.
GET OVER IT....MOVE ON!
wealth question
Submitted on January 16th, 2008 by steingood idea for a truth or not
Democratic Debate: Final thought
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelI don't know that I can judge a "win" here for anybody. The questions were miserable, by and large, so the candidates had to make up their own debate.
That said, one of the only moderately-stupid questions of the night -- your greatest weakness? -- elicited the most telling moment.
Clinton: I'm impatient with people who don't care as much as I do.
Edwards: I'm too empathetic, making me try too hard to fight for the underdog.
Obama: I'm disorganized.
Which of those answers sounds ... honest to you.
Like I said, it's a small deal, not worth making or breaking a primary vote. But it's about what I have to go on tonight.
Democratic debate: And that's that
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenThe winner of this debate? Barack Obama. He spoke well and deflected most of the stupid questions. He was substantive on the economy. But he's terrible on the war.
Hillary Clinton comes in a close second. She gave specifics on what she would do on the economy. Unfortunately, her policy prescriptions would likely ruin us all.
(Well, all of the candidates would ruin us, but what would you expect me to say?)
John Edwards? Demagogue.
Debate: So what did we learn?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joel* That Tim Russert forgot that he was moderating a debate, and instead thought he was playing his usual Sunday morning game of gotcha. We heard a lot about politics instead of governance -- and this whole thing IS about governance -- and learned precious little about either.
* That the candidates, fortunately, are more serious than their interrogators, and tried to turn the dumb questions back to matters of substance.
* That it's true, after all, that there's not a ton of daylight between these candidates on the major issues. At least, as far as we can tell from the questioning. So it really will be a matter of voting for the style you think can lead to the most substance.
More thoughts, if I have them, in a bit...
Democratic debate: When did you decide to run for president?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenThe best answer of the night came from my wife: "Who cares?"
Democratic Debate: Dumb questions
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelSo, candidates, have any final platitudes to drop on us?
Democratic Debate: Dumb questions
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelSo, candidates, have any final platitudes to drop on us?
Democratic debate: Fear and terror
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenAnd now, the brass tacks. Which of these candidates is best equipped to wage the war on terrorism?
Hillary Clinton: "The highest duty of the president is to protect and defend the country. ...One of the biggest jobs will be to fight terrorism." She talks the talk. I sure hope she... does that other thing, especially since she can't help but talk about George Bush's penchant for using the "politics of fear."
Barack Obama: "Dominated by the politics of fear," "the tragedy of New York," "trauma for the country," "specter of a terrorist attack," "I don't want to perpetuate that." This man might be a fine orator, but he is not serious.
John Edwards: "I didn't actually place a call to Musharraf." No, not at all the actions of an opportunist.
Democratic Debate: Terror question
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelSenator Clinton, are you actually saying that you think you'd be a better president than the other candidates?
That's not what was asked, exactly, but that was the essence.
How about why would you be better? Eh?
Democratic debate: Guns, guns, guns
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenThe Second Amendment isn't just about hunting. The candidates have deployed just about every fallacy in the book here.
Democratic debate: Education and urgency
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenObama says "we don't have a sense of urgency from the White House"? On education, Bush makes Bill Clinton look like Calvin Coolidge!
Democratic debate: Back to the race questions again
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenHonestly, this is terrible.
Hillary Clinton said she regrets that the debate hasn't focused more on "black-brown issues." Thank God! Energy policy, taxes and spending, the war and health care are American issues.
Democratic Debate: No drop in the standard of living
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelThat's Obama's promise, with regard to massive energy changes.
And maybe that can happen. But massive changes in how we literally power the economy will mean changes in how people are employed. As with any revolution, there will be winners and losers. That's not a reason not to do it, but it should be acknowledged that there would be pain. Why should we do it anyway? Because there might be greater pain if we don't do it.
Democratic debate: English as the official language
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenGreat, great question. Why only directed to John Edwards? For all the talk about uniting the country -- I'm looking at you Sen. Obama -- an official language would certainly be one way to do that.
Democratic debate: What do the candidates favor for energy?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenWhy, efficiency, of course.
Democratic debate: Biofuels?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenNo panacea.
Democratic Debate: Nuclear
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelThis would be a good opportunity to ask the candidates what they FAVOR in terms of energy policy. We know who is against what, more or less, at this point.
Democratic debate: Edwards on nuclear power
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenNo new nuclear power plants? Tell it to the French, Senator!
Oh, and Edwards is backpedaling on another vote. Good grief.
Democratic debate: Storing nuclear waste
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenObama wants to get the best experts to decide what to do with nuclear waste? Well, what if it's Yucca Mountain?
Here's a thought: reprocess the stuff, like the French (ahem) do.
Democratic debate: Re: Defending the Army
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenThe real issue is going unspoken there: Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Why have universities tried to exclude ROTC? Because they oppose the military's policy on gays. But then again, the army seems to be turning a blind-eye to that policy lately.
Democratic Debate: Helping the veterans
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelEdwards pulls a good move, turning the question into a discourse about how we need to better help veterans.
Normally, I'm bugged when politicians ignore the question and give their own speech. But it wasn't a question that made much sense to begin with.
Democratic debate: Obama calls for expanding the military
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenBarack Obama reminds me of a young Bill Clinton. There. I said it.
Incidentally, I think it's great that the Democratic candidates all support the Solomon Amendment. Good for them.
Democratic Debate: Defending the Army
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelRussert: Will Clinton enforce law requiring public universities to make space for ROTC and recruiters?
Clinton: Yes.
This doesn't seem like a big issue -- it's the first I've heard it raised in this campaign -- but it does seem like a question designed to rile the antiwar portion of the base.
Democratic debate: Time flies...
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Ben...when you're quaffing a decent Argentinian Malbec.
Oh, no, they're back!
Democratic Debate: Iraq, Kuwait
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelI'll disagree with Obama that keeping a "quick reaction force" in Iraq is essentially no different from keeping them in Kuwait. Kuwaitis, by and large, like us. In Iraq, we're still seen as occupiers. Edwards is right to draw the distinction, because it makes a big difference as to how we're seen in the world.
Democratic debate: Permanent bases in Kuwait, not Iraq
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenBecause, as John Edwards says, that's different. Oh, OK.
Obama calls it a distinction without a difference. Quite right.
Democratic Debate: The break
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelScotch. Is. Good.
Democratic debate: Obama and withdrawal
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenIt's nice of Sen. Obama to remind Americans about his eagerness to withdraw precipitously from Iraq. His current plan calls for having all U.S. troops out by 2009. His bill last year -- 2007, when the Democrats had Congress -- would have had U.S. troops out by this May.
By the way, I don't necessarily think we need permanent bases in Iraq. But I'm troubled by this idea that the Democratic candidates are trying to one-up each other as far as pulling U.S. forces out of Iraq.
Democratic debate: Donors
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenYes, this business about getting contributions from mid-level execs is a cheap canard. Fact is, it's transparent. That's a good thing. Otherwise, Edwards wouldn't be able to ask the question.
Democratic Debate: Clinton asks Obama
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelSays she's got legislation requiring the president to seek Congressional permission for permanent Iraqi bases. Wants Obama to cosponsor.
He's up for it.
Democratic debate: Foreclosures and bailouts
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenIf I heard Hillary Clinton right, not only is she proposing freezing rates, but she just called for a $30 billion bailout of homeowners with bad debts.
Remember the S&L bailout? Good. Because that $30 billion pricetag is waaaay too low.
Democratic Debate: Candidates question each other
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelEdwards starts on campaign finances. Says Obama and Clinton raised lots of money from drug and healthcare industries. Are they expecting something?
Obama says that money from a mid-level executive who likes him is recorded as "industry" money. Fair point. And he notes that he won't take lobbyist money.
Democratic debate: Freezing interest rates, etc.
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenCountrywide's CEO is getting a $110 million severance package. I trust that isn't tax-free.
I forgot to mention earlier: freezing interest rates for five years? Why? Why manipulate the economy that way? Wage and price controls don't work. Why would locking in rates at an artificial level? Terrible idea. Terrible, silly, pernicious. And not good.
Democratic Debate: Bankruptcy law
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelRussert: Edwards, do you regret voting for a bill to make it tougher to declare bankruptcy?
Edwards: Yes, I regret that.
So Edwards admits he voted wrong on the war. And that he voted wrong on bankruptcy. He's calling into question his own judgment on big issues. You've got to be right at the moment of decision occasionally, right?
Democratic debate: Edwards on economic growth
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Ben"We have economic growth in America, we still do. But almost the entirety of that economic growth is with the very wealthiest Americans and the biggest multinational corporations."
I doubt that. Hmmm. True or not?
Democratic Debate: Economy
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelEdwards says the core economic problem is that all the economic growth is going to the wealthy. Which is true. But why nothing about our insane levels of debt? A lot of American families feel insecure because they're looking at their credit card debt, in combination with other shaky factors. Same for the country. Nobody's saying anything about that, though.
Democratic debate: Sovereign-wealth funds
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenNow we're talking substance. Hillary Clinton doesn't necessarily like investments from foreign sovereign wealth funds. Those investments are problematic -- hat-in-hand, and all that.
But a moratorium on foreclosures? Sure, sounds nice... if you want to bury what's left of the U.S. mortgage industry.
Democratic debate: Let the candidates ask the questions
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenI hope the candidates' questions to each other are better than the questions the moderators are asking.
Democratic Debate: We made it to the first break
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joelwithout a policy question.
Democratic debate: Obama and the Muslim myth
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenOh, good lord. This fever swamp stuff really burns me up. Not sure why it's a question, but I guess it's good to let Obama clear the air.
Democratic debate: Operator in Chief redux
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenHillary Clinton has a much better answer, more concrete, about whether the president should be a chief operating officer. "Manage and operate and hold that bureaucracy accountable." Easier said than done.
Democratic Debate: Weaknesses
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelI love the weakness question. Obama, messy desk. Edwards, too empathetic. Clinton, too impatient for change.
I'll just score Obama as being the most honest there.
Democratic debate: Obama is a man after my own heart
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenHis desk is a mess... like mine!
I still wouldn't vote for him.
Democratic debate: Operator in Chief?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenObama is making an effective point (not necessary a good point, but an effective one) about the role of the president. But I wonder where in the Constitution is the part about the president tapping the hopes and dreams of the American people?
Democratic debate: Somebody call a psychiatrist
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenHillary Clinton hears voices!
Democratic debate: I agree with the heckler!
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenThese race-based questions are absurd.
Democratic Debate: Energy policy
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joel... but to their credit, the candidates keep trying to steer back to policy, in a vague kind of way.
Democratic debate: The promise of America
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Ben"People come to Nevada in the thousands every day to find the promise of America," Edwards said. Where? At the MGM Grand?
Democratic Debate: Away from the identity stuff
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joel... now it's a horserace question. Dammit. THIS is why I hate watching TV news.
I'm starting in on the Laphroig. Now.
Democratic debate: Then again, group politics are not good
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenWe're -- what? -- 18 minutes (oops -- 20 minutes) into this thing and it's still all about race, sex and class. Sigh.
Obama is right about one thing, though: talking about what he meant when he said "You're likable enough, Hillary," is not nearly as important as what these candidates have to say about health care, taxes and spending and -- oh, yes -- the war.
Democratic Debate: We're 20 minutes in
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelAnd so far, not a single policy question from Williams or Russert. The campaigns might get caught up in identity politics, but you guys are journalists for Pete's sake. Give us some meat!
Democratic Debate: The white man's burden
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelWhat's a white man to do in the face of these historic candidacies?
Yup. It's been pretty tough for white guys over the years...
Democratic debate: Special interests aren't a bad thing
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenIn fact, Senator Obama, special interests are good for you.
Democratic Debate: Resentments
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelQuestion from the public: Since the policy differences are so slight, why shouldn't she resent being forced to choose between the first African American and the first woman for president.
Why SHOULD she be resentful? Weird.
Also: John Edwards, in answering the question, mentions that he's the son of a mill worker.
Only Obama hasn't mentioned it yet.
Democratic Debate: Robert Johnson
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelClinton says she believes when Johnson says he wasn't making reference to Obama's teen drug use.
But she's the only one.
Democratic debate: Regrets? Obama has a few...
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenBlaming the staff? Not good form.
Does anyone doubt that Democrats and Republicans alike believe in racial equality? This isn't 1968!
Democratic Debate: Race
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joel... but we're on the third question about this.
Democratic Debate: It's Obama's fault
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelRussert asks Obama why his staff sends out racially charged quotes from Clinton's surrogates, if he wants to put the issue aside. Obama says it's not going to happen anymore.
The candidates seem to want to move on from this topic...
Democratic debate: Ready to make nice?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by BenSounds like the senator from New York is making peace. "We're all family in the Democratic party." I'm reminded of something H.L. Mencken wrote 80 years ago about how Democrats cannot help but tear each other to pieces.
How did we get here?
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelBrian Williams goes right after Clinton on race. She manages to get out that Edwards is a son of a mill worker before he does. That's gotta burn.
Romney wins!
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelOr so Brian Williams says. It's a barn-burner in the GOP, eh?
Ah, there's the sound.
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by JoelThe show hasn't started yet. We're getting pre-TV video. John Edwards just slipped off his watch. Apparently he learned something from George HW Bush...
Well the video works
Submitted on January 15th, 2008 by Joelbut no audio so far. But we're still pre-show.